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Grant1962  
#1 Posted : 17 February 2011 15:29:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grant1962

The British Standards Institution seems to be a self perpetuating money machine, when trying to research information that can only be found in the published standards I constantly discover that there is a huge cost associated with this.

Wonder why they cannot do what the HSE did a year or so ago and make copies available for download or for purchase of the hard copy?

Knowledge is power it seems.

Does anyone know how to get legal access to the standards with out having to pay a good percentage of the conpany turnover?
ITER  
#2 Posted : 17 February 2011 16:09:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER

Standards from BSI won't be free simply because they are a commercial organisation.

You can download and/or purchase at a reduced rate if you subscribe to their service.
Grant1962  
#3 Posted : 18 February 2011 11:31:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grant1962

Thanks ITER,
It still astounds me that a comercial organisation can be allowed to weild so much power in the retention of valuable information. I do not see how they can actually justify the amounts they charge for four or five pieces of paper; as that is all that some standards amount to.

Even the subscription services are not finacially viable to many SME's, look at the case of PPE I wonder how much it would be to purchase every standard relating to PPE? See below. It is not acceptable really.









General PPE Standards

EN 348

Clothing [Protective] Standards

EN 340 EN 373 EN 381-1 EN 381-2 EN 381-3
EN 381-5 EN 381-8 EN 381-9 EN 412 EN 463
EN 464 EN 465 EN 465/A1 EN 466 EN 466/A1
EN 467 EN 467/A1 EN 468 EN 469 EN 470-1
EN 470-1/A1 EN 471 EN510 EN 530 EN 351
EN 531/A1 EN 532 EN 533 EN 863 EN 1073-1
EN 1049-1 EN 1049-2 EN 1050 EN 1082-1 EN 1421-1
EN 1486 EN 60895 EN 60984 EN 60984/A11

Ergonomic Standards for PPE

EN 13921-1 EN 13921-3 EN 13921-4 EN 13921-6

Eyewear [Protective] and Face Protection Standards

EN 165 EN 166 EN 153-1 EN 168 EN 169
EN 170 EN 171 EN 172 EN 174 EN 175
EN 207 EN 208 EN379 EN 379/A1 EN 1731
EN 1731/A1 EN 1836 EN 1868 EN 1938 EN 13178

Fall Arrest Standards

EN 341 EN 341/A1 EN 381-1 EN 353-2 EN 354
EN 355 EN 358 EN 360 EN 361 EN 362
EN 363 EN 364 EN 365 EN 568 EN 795
EN 813 EN 892 EN 958 EN 1095 EN 1891
EN 12277 EN 12278

Floatation Devices Standards

EN ISO 12402-4 EN ISO 12402-9

Footwear [Protective] Standards

EN 344 EN 344/A1 EN 344-2 EN 345 EN 345A
EN 345-2 EN 346 EN 346/A1 EN 346-2 EN 347
EN 347/A1 EN 347-2 EN 341 EN 12568

Gloves [Protective] Standards

EN 374-1 EN 374-2 EN 374-3 EN 388 EN 407
EN 420 EN 659 EN ISO 10819 EN 50237 EN 60903
EN 60903/A11


Head Protection Standards

EN 397 EN 433 EN 812 EN 960 EN 960/A1
EN 966 EN 967 EN 1077 EN 1078 EN 1080
EN 1384 EN 1385

Hearing Protection Standards

EN 352-1 EN 352-2 EN 352-3 EN 458 EN ISO 4869-2
EN 24869-1 EN 24869-3

Heat and Flam Protection Standards

EN 366 EN 367

Life Jackets [Protective] Standards

EN 393 EN 393/A1 EN 394 EN 395 EN 395/A1
EN 396 EN 396/A1 EN 399 EN 399/A1

Liquid Chemical Protection Standards

EN 368 EN 369

Respiratory Protection Standards

EN 132 EN 133 EN 134 EN 135 EN 136
EN 137 EN 138 EN 139 EN 140 EN 141
EN 142 EN 143 EN 144-1 EN 144-2 EN 145
EN 146 EN 147 EN 148-1 EN 148-2 EN 148-3
EN 149 EN 250 EN 269 EN 270 EN 271
EN 371 EN 372 EN 400 EN 401 EN 402
EN 403 EN 404 EN 405 EN 1061 EN 1146
EN 1146/A1 EN 12941 EN 12942

boblewis  
#4 Posted : 18 February 2011 11:36:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
boblewis

Good technical libraries often hold copies - but be aware that many standards you quote may only refer to the manufacturing process itself and would only be normally useful to a manufacturer - Who would of course need them anyway

Bob
ITER  
#5 Posted : 18 February 2011 12:20:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
ITER

As boblewis says, quite a lot of standards relate to manufacturing and are not particulary relevant on a day to day basis for most h&s manager/advisors etc.

Your county library may well hold copies or at least be able to get copies for you to read of the standard(s) you are interested in - (but not copy - or at least only copy small sections)

I would guess the cost of the standards is related to the time/effort of writing the standard and the potential 'market' and commercial sales anticipated for any particular standard.

I do have quite a number of standards, but in my experience you can do the vast majority of routine h&s work without having to read/access the relevant standards. Often relevant British Standards are quoted in HSE publications and the esseence/key points of the Standards are contained within the written text of HSE publications. HSE publications are free.

In my case I undertake quite a bit of DSEAR hazardous area classification, the definitions of Zone 0, 1, 2 etc come from BS1127/60079 series of standards, but the definitions and requirements are quoted and described in the related HSE DSEAR guidance documents - which are free.

You don't have to use British Standards as your reference, however BS happen to have cornered the market in terms of the production of standards in the UK. If you look into the history of BS, they originated about 1900 as a part of the then Board of Trade.

British Standards have no legal weight, but I have always ben told that they are 'persuasive evidence' of 'best practice' and following a standard could be argued as being 'reasonably practicable' in term of HSWA.

You could choose other standards/standard organisations e.g.ASME, but they all charge for their documents.
Grant1962  
#6 Posted : 18 February 2011 14:44:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Grant1962

Thanks Guys,
I too work in the DSEAR field but I am also a curious beast who likes to research information to the N th degree just so that my presentations contain that little bit more information than a bog standard one.

I'll give the Library a go, although I thought that they had become unfashionable with the rise of the internet, I may also give the EU a try as many of the standards originate from there anyway - I beleive that they are a little less frugal.

But thanks again for your comments, I was beginning to think nobody would reply.

Grant 1962
jay  
#7 Posted : 18 February 2011 16:18:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

It is possible that sometime in the future there will be a more affordable, but not free model. I presume that the prices are based on publishing & selling hard-copies. In my personal view, the requirement for BSI membership for 50% discount is outdated, as the membership of BSI is based on a combination of financial turnover and employee count. Even if you subscribe to other information resources such as IHS or Barbour, in order to have the BSI modules one has to have BSI membership!

I am sure that if there was a hue & cry regarding this, there would at least be a review.

What is shocking & in my view not transparent is that there is hardly any information accessible to the public regarding the various technical committees involved in standards making, although there is a website and password protected access for the committee members. BSI has not populated most of the information for public on that website.


https://ecommittees.bsi-global.com/bsi/controller


For example, if one looks at the work of the various HS/1 sub committees that were involved in Occupational Health & Safety Management Systems Standards, the public information is zero.

I presume that this is because of the lack of admin support rather than the committee members themselves.

I speak from experience based on participating in the HS/1 committee from 2000 to 2003


BSI can make much more money if it offered some "bundles" at the cheaper cost, but only electronically as the demand would increase.

The standards are not all the time for manufacturing--there are several standards a general or a specialist health and safety practitioner may need to refer to.
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