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JonB  
#1 Posted : 04 March 2011 12:31:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JonB

The vacuum cleaners we currently use for dust control are not particularly suitable and I have been considering options for replacement.

1. We have determined that the work area itself does not require classification under DSAER but I am using the HSE guidance (Appendix 1 - Guidance on the selection on selection of vacuum cleaners for low combustibility organic granules and dust (e.g. Flour)(not sure what its an appendix to!)
2. I am happy to go along with the recommendations in the guidance but wondering if anyone has any experience or recommendations for small vacuums that do not involve airflow over the motor (HSE suggests these are rare except on larger three phase units). I am putting together a spec based on the HSE recommendations but need to be realistic as there's no point asking for something that's not available.

Thanks in advance

Jon B
SimonL  
#2 Posted : 04 March 2011 13:24:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SimonL

Oddly enough I was reading the same document this week.
In my non-expert view you may wish to seek other forms of guidance on this subject rather than relying on the HSE alone. The HSE guide is written specifically for vacuum cleaners for use where there is a potentially explosive dust atmosphere. Very unhelpfully it then advises that with a torn bag or filter then virtually any vacuum cleaner used in a business or domestic environment could also explode. Since a filter tear or bag failure is entirely likely over the life of the vacuum, then by following the HSE guidance note you don't have much option but to use a very expensive machine specifically manufactured for such areas.
The reality is that in the history of vacuum cleaners, and millions of machines, there has never been a case where an explosion has happened (based on my web searches but if anyone knows of any I would be very interested).
Absence of an explosion is obviously not an absence of risk, but would indicate a flaw in the HSE guidance.
B.Bruce  
#3 Posted : 04 March 2011 13:41:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
B.Bruce

Hi Jon

I have just purchased a vacuum for our powder coating booth for use cleaning and housekeeping each day around the booth and inside the booth. The vacuum is 110V and manufacturered by Numatic approx £1300 each. Also, around 5 years ago I purchased 4 Numatic EX rated units when I worked for a food manufacturing business - also 110V - but were manufactured by NILFISK, these were in approx £1600 each.

Simon is right - dont rely on the HSE guidance alone, do some further research. And yes, although there may be no 'known' history of explsions relating directly to the operation of non-EX rated vacuums it would be difficult to defend your position should an incident occur and you were using a 'normal' unprotected vacuum.

On both occasions I opted for consultants to carry out the DSEAR assessments and to provide recommendations on the rating of any equipment required. It can be quite a specialised field.

Food for thought anyways.

PS - I dont work for Nilfisk or Numatic and there are plenty of other manufacturers out there, google search and give some of them a call - they may be able to advice based on their experience.
JonB  
#4 Posted : 04 March 2011 15:21:47(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JonB

Thanks, I appreciate the comments but I am not convinced there is any requirement for ATEX equipment. The guidance is quite clear in that if the area has a hazardous classification then ATEX equipment is required - Our area is not classified as such.

We've more experience with flammable vapours than explosible dusts but using that logic I'd expect an ATEX vacuum to have additional protection of the windings and electrical system etc on the same lines as other intrinsically safe equipment and the risk is from what in the air -not what is drawn up. The dust burden would have to be greater than our present circumstances by several orders of magnitude for this to be a factor (if not the type of vacuum would be the least of our worries!).

Looking at the risk, there's a lot about potential or possible but little or nothing saying where's its actually occurred, as pointed out there's tens, hundreds of thousands of them out there, if we follow the guidance the risk is low and it becomes hard to justify as RP.

I hope I am not horribly wrong but I thought the advice was fairly straightforward and logical, we don't need ATEX vacuum but there are some sensible considerations to make when making the selection. It really does boil down to the issue of airflow over the motor.

I'll ask the major manufacturers but would must have got to consider their advice to be slightly biased - sorry for being cynical - as they have vested interest in pushing the ATEX requirement (though I might be pleasantly surprised).

Thanks for the input





Jim Tassell  
#5 Posted : 07 March 2011 10:30:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Jim Tassell

Jon

Can I come at this from another direction? You seem to be assuming that flour is low combustibility. Hold on, historically after coal and snuff, it's probably the most common fuel for catastrophic dust/air explosions. Thankfully they are rare nowadays but please don't underestimate its potential.

Somewhere inside your vacuum cleaner there will be an explosible concentration of dust as it is concentrated in the bag. The volume is small so the resulting pop will be small but it could be sufficient to trigger a series of escalating secondaries, depending on the surroundings.
Andrew W Walker  
#6 Posted : 07 March 2011 10:39:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Andrew W Walker

Have a look at this

SteveL  
#7 Posted : 07 March 2011 12:27:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SteveL

Try this one,



makes you think.

Think I'll stay in construction
JonB  
#8 Posted : 07 March 2011 12:35:23(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
JonB

Motorhead - thanks for the link, some useful, entertaining and downright daft links from that. Some of the OSHA stuff was particularly informative, even if well beyond the scale of our operations.

Jim - I know where your coming from, we have previously looked at flour dust and I thought it would be rated higher than low combustibility, but its the HSE guidance that defines it as low combustibility, if we can't trust this as an information source then what can we trust?

I'd like to stress that the guidance http://www.hse.gov.uk/food/dustexplosionapp1.htm is meant for non-hazardous environments (i.e. No zone 20,21,22) under DSEAR, not the opposite indicated in earlier posts. As I see things, its perfectly acceptable to use a standard (commercial / industrial) vacuum so long as the construction is such that ignition risk are minimised. It just getting the specification right and finding a supplier that's seems difficult and I suspect the major players will not fill the gap when they can sell you an ATEX rated vacuum at 5 x the cost.

Jon
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