Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Centurion  
#1 Posted : 09 March 2011 11:18:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Centurion

A quote from Health and Safety at Work Online:-

"Unannounced workplace inspections could be reduced by a third from 2011–12 onwards, according to a leaked letter signed by the HSE’s chief executive Geoffrey Podger and obtained by the BBC’s File on 4 programme on Radio 4.
The BBC claims that in the four-page document Podger suggests cutting proactive inspections by a third, compared with previously planned levels, and making entire sectors immune from an unannounced “knock on the door”." End of quote.

What next,will Mr. Podger suggest to the Government that money could be raised to cut the deficit by selling off this work activity to private organisations?



peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 09 March 2011 13:40:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Andy

The idea that businesses be inspected by accredited auditors has already been mooted. Would of course actually result in the costs associated with HSE being multiplied as us expensive consultants would need to do far more comprehensive audits than the diagnostic approach taken by the regulator.
Stedman  
#3 Posted : 09 March 2011 17:20:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Stedman

Have a look at this link on the BBC web-site http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12621073
cliveg  
#4 Posted : 16 March 2011 18:08:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cliveg

Well, the Government found it couldn't scrap H&S regulations during the Lord Young review, so instead it is just stopping those regulations being enforced.

Cynical? Or just an example of there being 'more than one way to skin a cat'?
Clairel  
#5 Posted : 16 March 2011 19:25:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

Don't be so paranoid Clive. All public sectors are having their finances cut and so the HSE has to be included in those cuts. Sign of the times.

Personally I don't know how much spot checks by HSE inspectors do work anymore. There are so few of them anyway I don't think employers try and get H&S right just in case the HSE come knocking on their door. I think there are other incentives. Furthermore, the premises are never followed up to see what changes have been implemented following the first visit, unless an Improvement Notice has been served. So how much has really been worthwhile?

So maybe we need to think ougtside the box, accept that resources need to be cut and find another way. Maybe in the days of factories spot checks worked but the workplace has changed so maybe the way the HSE operates needs to change too. Radically.
Dazzling Puddock  
#6 Posted : 17 March 2011 10:37:52(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Dazzling Puddock

So ClaireL your solution to years of under investment in the HSE is to slash its budget even further?

In the past, social workers involved with child protection were vastly overworked with huge caseloads that reduced the chances of follow ups, this lead to a numbers of arguably preventable tragedies occurring.

I did not see many advocating the mass lay off of child protection social workers because they were not doing their jobs effectively anyway!

"I don't think employers try and get H&S right just in case the HSE come knocking on their door"
You must be living in a different world to me then as I find that a huge number of SME do exactly that and will be content to do nothing to improve safety unless challenged by a regulator.
tabs  
#7 Posted : 17 March 2011 12:52:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
tabs

I agree with Clairel - do the same job, but in a different way. I do not have an answer as to how to do that - but if someone wants to engage me as a government adviser, I will certainly do a good job trying to find the answer.

My degree (1996) thesis was SME compliance motivation in Yorkshire and I did not find the HSE very high on the list.

DP - the true under-investment is in EHS in the workplace, I think.
Clairel  
#8 Posted : 17 March 2011 17:47:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

DP - I did not say the solution was to cut funding I said that all departments are being cut not just the HSE and they have to just deal with it. I do believe though that they need to operate more efficiently (having worked as an inspector I would say there is a great deal of inefficiency).

Tabs - I think spot checks did work but not anymore. More and more in the last 5-10 years it is the insurance companies that are demanding higher levels of H&S or if anyone has anything to do with tendering for work or CDM then that seems to drive it forward too.
cliveg  
#9 Posted : 17 March 2011 19:51:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
cliveg

Hello All
Unfortunately in my line of work, cynicism is an industrial disease!
I have to say this is rather more than the HSE making their fair contribution (don't start me on the causes of the financial crisis...), this is a Government making a point. Cutting the funding by a third is way higher than the cuts to other parts of the public sector – I haven't found any other cuts that come close to this level.
Who else will enforce? The local authorities are having their funding cut back and in my own area they only have one H&S officer, and their job is under threat. How about securing compliance through the Insurance sector? Under-insuring or simply failing to insure at all is on the increase, so thats hardly realistic either.
Is there a need to enforce? Having spent 30 years in law enforcement and seen far too many innocent lives wrecked by criminal acts or negligence I am forced to conclude that there is a very definite need for enforcement.
There are quite simply far too many people out there who put their own self interest first, and as a result the innocent pay the price. Oh look, I've arrived back at the cause of the financial crisis....
Clairel  
#10 Posted : 18 March 2011 11:17:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Clairel

cliveg wrote:
Hello All
Unfortunately in my line of work, cynicism is an industrial disease!
I have to say this is rather more than the HSE making their fair contribution (don't start me on the causes of the financial crisis...), this is a Government making a point. Cutting the funding by a third is way higher than the cuts to other parts of the public sector – I haven't found any other cuts that come close to this level.
Who else will enforce? The local authorities are having their funding cut back and in my own area they only have one H&S officer, and their job is under threat. How about securing compliance through the Insurance sector? Under-insuring or simply failing to insure at all is on the increase, so thats hardly realistic either.
Is there a need to enforce? Having spent 30 years in law enforcement and seen far too many innocent lives wrecked by criminal acts or negligence I am forced to conclude that there is a very definite need for enforcement.
There are quite simply far too many people out there who put their own self interest first, and as a result the innocent pay the price. Oh look, I've arrived back at the cause of the financial crisis....


Is cutting inspections by a third the same as cutting their funding by a third?

No one disputes the need for law enforcement and we have a moral and legal obligation to do just that. But spot check inspections are not the same thing as law enforcement.

I think what's needed is:
- more education of H&S issues
- less risk aversion (which puts people off H&S altogether)
- a more visible presence form the HSE - but that does not mean the same thing as more spot check inspections.
- a change in the structure of the HSE. Currently you have probably half of the warranted inspectors no longer active as inspectors but sat about in Sector and Policy liasing wih industry etc. A valuable role but for warranted inspectors? The HSE needs to be overhauled IMO. Just becuase it used to work doesn't mean it's still working.
johnmurray  
#11 Posted : 18 March 2011 11:48:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

The HSE, under labour, had their funding cut to the extent that they "lost" 400 inspectors.
This government is just continuing the good work.
Since expenses, including fuel for cars, has also been reduced, what else are they supposed to do but sit around?
To be honest about it, the insurers inspectors are more use anyway.
They have been for years. AND the gov. Can do nothing about that, unless they remove the necessity for insurance.
blodwyn  
#12 Posted : 24 March 2011 13:39:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
blodwyn

http://www.shponline.co....-over-safety-inspections

What is interesting is the list in this article of the type of premises where inspections will be cut. I am not sure which 'body' advised here but I am not seeing 'low risk' in transport, light engineering, agriculture, quarries.

Funding cuts, axe on inspections - its about to get very very interesting out there.

Will we see wholesale avoidance of the law in these sectors? Increased fatalities? Then a massive turnaround?

Wish I had a crystal ball!!!!!
stephenjs  
#13 Posted : 24 March 2011 13:56:17(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
stephenjs

its quite simple really, in my opinion, and this may be contentious, HSE & LA inspectors are overpaid for what they do, bearing in mind, absence payments, holiday entitlements etc and are not adequately skilled or competent in all the areas they are asked to enforce - having said that they have a massive task and the system has been found wanting for some time. My thoughts are that the Gov't is using the system financial regulators use - after all HMRC doesn't visit every business you use chartered accountants.

This should be a boom time for private sector H&S providers who provide reasonable and realistic H&S to their clients requirements

Oops just heard the loud bang!!!!!! and am waitning for the replies
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.