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#1 Posted : 23 November 2000 20:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Randal B. Counihan I am currently investigating the adverse effects on a persons lumbar region of sustained wave/boat impacts caused by high speed boats moving at speed in heavy weather. I am a health & safety officer working in a marine industry where personnel can spend several hours a day working in these conditions. We seem to have more than our share of back ailments. I am seeking any information or a guide to a location or group who can help me. Randal.
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#2 Posted : 24 November 2000 13:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jerry Hill Randall, Although there are many websites available for Manual Handling information, your situation, although not unique, is quite un-usual.From a risk assessment point of view, you have obviously identified a problem, for which the only solutions I can see are training for staff and reducing the ammount of time they conduct the work. Not an ideal, 'quick-fix' solution, I know, but probably the most practicable. Good luck with it Jerry
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#3 Posted : 24 November 2000 17:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By STEVE HIYA RANDALL BACK PROBLEMS ARE A MAJOR PROBLEM WITHIN THE MARINE INDUSTRY. WHILST YOU CAN TAKE CERTAIN MEASURES TO TRY AND PREVENT THEM ,YOU WILL ALWAYS BE STRUGGLING IN THIS AREA. I HAVE BEEN A SKIPPER OF A FISHING VESSEL FOR THE LAST 15YRS AND I AM NOW TRYING TO GET INTO THE HEALTH&SAFETY INDUSTRY. WHILST THERE ARE A FEW PRECAUTIONS YOU CAN TAKE THERE IS ALSO A AREA YOU WILL HAVE NO CONTROL OF THIS IS MAINLY THE WEATHER. I HAVE NOT COME ACROSS A BOAT THAT DOES NOT ROLL ABOUT WHEN IN ADVERSE CONDITIONS{I WOULDNT WANT TO BE ON ONE THAT DIDNT} THIS STRAIGHT AWAY MAKES A PROBLEM TO THE HUMAN BODY AS THE PITCHING AND ROLLING ABOUT ISNT FROM ONE CONSTANT DIRECTION. YOU SAY THE PROBLEMS ARE BACK PROBLEMS {LOWER SPINE}THIS IS BECAUSE THE LOWER SPINE IS NOT SUPPORTED BY THE RIB CAGE OR BIG MUSCLES THEREFORE IT BECOMES THE WEAK POINT. CAN YOU IMAGINE BOUNCING UP AND DOWN FOR A COUPLE OF HRS BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN BAD WEATHER ON A BOAT. IS THE SEATING PADDED WHERE THE CREW SIT? ARE THERE HARNESSES FITTED TO THE SEATS TO PREVENT MOVEMENT? CAN THE SPEED OF THE BOAT BE LOWERED TO PREVENT SLAMMING INTO THE WEATHER? ARE THE CREW ISSUED WITH SPORT BACK SUPPORTS? {WE HAVE FOUND THAT ONCE FISHERMEN GOT OVER THE MACHO IMAGE THESE ARE BRILLIANT ESPECIALLY NOW THEY ARE LIGHT WEIGHT} WHY DO THE BOATS NEED TO GO OUT IN ADVERSE WEATHER? I COULD GO ON AND ON BUT MAYBE YOU WILL COME BACK TO ME AND GIVE ME MORE DETAILS SO THAT I CAN BE MORE CONSTRUCTIVE. STEVE{EX FISHERMAN WITH BACHE-ACHE}
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#4 Posted : 27 November 2000 01:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Garry Nabbe Steve seems to be right on track here obviously from his years of experience. There is perhaps something that I can contribute. You should determine wether the crews usually stand up in the boats during rough weather which is quite common as the legs then absorb some of the impacts. The downside to that is that they are thrown about a bit more and then the back muscles are working overtime to maintain the bodies balance. The back brace made of wet suit type material would provide some help as would secure hand holds and wrap around seating that supports the body on three sides and has some shock absorbing capability and a lock out for any swivel motion. Although the environment is a bit different you could look at some of the seating used in heavy earthmoving equipment especially the type that have vibration as a source of compaction. I am not sure of the suitability but you may be able to build on some of those technologies.
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#5 Posted : 27 November 2000 19:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Randal B. Counihan Many thanks for all the advice, it is very much appreciated. To further explain my predicament. We spend several hours a day in 7.5m RIBs, primarily involved in Fishery Protection but also very involved in drugs and arms intirdiction and search and rescue operations. We therefore have to operate in sometimes very heavy weather conditions. I am seeking any study papers that may have been written on my subject, any study groups or chatrooms that specialise on the subject or even the name of a person studying the problem. I understand that there may be a Norwegian who specialises on the subject, but I don't know his name. Please keep the info coming it is all very appreciated. Randal.
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#6 Posted : 30 November 2000 00:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Garry Nabbe Hi Randal Since my last posting on your subject I have communicated with a friend who is responsible for the purchase of the boats they use in the National Parks and Wildlife Service here on the South East Coast of Australia (the area where the yachts come to grief during the "Sydney to Hobart" Yacht Race). Although he has not identified any study papers I thought his response was worth posting and you may have some success by contacting the seat manufacturers who may have some study papers as marketing material. His response to me! ____________________________________________ The 7m RIBs used by the SAS and Police have centre saddle type seats (non-suspension) with small back rests and grab rails. The purpose of this seating configuration allows the individual to absorb the wave impacts with the legs, much like a horse rider does with stirrups. From my own experience with these vessels, I would suggest that the impacts these vessels and crew are sometimes subjected to, the suspension type seat described below would not survive structurally nor would they provide "secure" seating without a restraining harness (which would be lethal in a non, self righting vessel). Therefore, this means that the padded, saddle type seating could be less likely to cause back injury assuming the occupant of the seat was reasonably fit and was trained and experienced in regard to the vessels potential. On larger vessels with enclosed cabins, the high backed "Bostrom" or "Viking" brand suspension type seats are very suitable and many Government vessels now have them fitted. Obviously, these type of vessels are not going to be subjected to the same type of violent motion as a small vessel. I have just specified the up market model of these seats for our new 12m supply boat (suspension type with high backed seat fitted with arm, foot rest and finger guards) as I consider any professional crew operating an offshore (seagoing) vessels should be provided with this type of seating, especially for long distance coastal work. For this type of work, I do think there could be OH&S ramifications if not fitted (my opinion only). However, you would be the best judge of that. I do not know of any study papers on this subject but I do know of many severe injuries sustained (broken bones, head injuries etc) by vessel crew members operating high speed vessels in rough weather. I am sure statistics will indicate (if available) the most severe injuries would have been sustained by crew members moving around the vessel (negotiating steps, ladders, hatches and machinery spaces) which supports the commercial vessel survey requirement for all passengers to be seated when crossing bar entrances. I do know the British Royal National Lifeboat Institute (RNLI) require all crew members to wear lightweight helmets as they have found that most injuries sustained are head related. Their newer vessels are also fitted with suspension seats and harnesses for each crew member but the vessel are also self righting. Again, their experience would indicate that head related injuries are more common than back injuries. You may like to contact them for further information as they are on the internet. ___________________________________________ Hope this is of some benefit Garry
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