Posted By Amanda McCaig
I'm interested in people's views on re-enactment groups being invited into schools to give presentations to children. Often these groups fire black powder weapons in this situation. Given that anyone with a shotgun certificate can acquire a cannon and form a group without any training or experience in handling weapons of this type, do people think this is acceptable?

Posted By Amanda McCaig
You're quite right in your assessment! The majority of these people have no proper training in the handling of black powder and black powder weapons, particularly cannon. I've been collecting and analysing the accident reports for some years and the results don't make nice reading. The fact is that these people are completely unregulated.

One problem is that few H&S professionals have any experience of this activity and seem to rely on the groups' own risk assessments (that if if any are done at all). There is, I think a conflict of interest here.

Has anyone else any comments?

Posted By Amanda McCaig
Unfortunately the HSE publication Acquisition and Use of Explosives by Historical Societies does not adequately cover use, or deal with "best practice". As there is no mandatory obligation for re-enactment groups to report accidents, or to monitor "INCI's", the one's I know about are probably the tip of the iceberg.

Over the last 20 years, there has been almost one accident per year where a cannon operator has lost part of a limb, and many others involving injury to participants. There has also been incidents such as the one at the school, where a member the the public has been injured. Cannon barrels have also shattered, sending pieces of metal over a wide area.

The HSE tend not to prosecute because the injuries do not happen "in the workplace". However according to RoSPA, the HSE do have a responsibilty for these events. At a concert at Castle Howard, cannon were brought in to accompany the 1812 Overture, and a cannon operator lost part of her hand. In that case, the local Trading Standards Office investigated and prosecuted. However it appears that they feel they should not only have prosecuted the person running the cannon company, but the orchestra management who hired the cannon company, and the Castle Howard management who hired the orchestra!

Where then does this leave any organisation bringing in re-enactors for any event in this litigious age? Are risk assessments carried out for these events, and if so, who by? Can valid risk assessments be carried out by those who know little about black powder, and even less about the re-enactment groups? Has anyone ever been asked to do a risk assessment for a re-enactment event?

Posted By Amanda McCaig
I agree with you Andy! I wouldn't invite re-enactors into a school at all. My problem is in getting this message across to schools and museums who seem to think that re-enactors are in some way "professionals", when all they've done is pay a membership fee.

From my investigations, I am finding that organisations who use re-enactors, whether schools, heritage properties, charities etc., don't seem to carry out risk assessments. How does one get the message across that this is an activity which is potentially dangerous to both participant and to audiences?

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them.

Posted By Ian Hopkin
Hi ! This is my first tentative step into the IOSH discussion forum, I am using the forum to gain knowledge as I am taking the NEBOSH cert in June.

The subject you are discusing is of interest to me as I deal, professionally with the storage of explosives and weapons as part of my job as an armourer in the RAF.

Bar your concern with re-enactment groups at the location of the display, there are other areas to be considered, those are the storage of the explosive medium and the security of the weapons themselves.

The transportation and storage of the explosive to the site, depending on quantity, may require the operators to hold specific licences, and be able to store it in an authorised location.

Posted By Ken Taylor
This brings us back to the need for risk assessments. Those organising such events need to be told that, as they are to be in control of the event, they will be at risk of prosecution if things go wrong and that they must obtain risk assessments for the performances and prepare risk assessments for the event (in accordance with HSG 195). These can then be brought before the police, fire authority, licensing authority, local, authority, etc as appropriate and the event only permitted after their approval.

Posted By Tim Corbett
Dear All,

I am and have done Re enactment in schools and on large scale battles.
I agree with some of the comments made above but would like to make some observations.
In the time that we did visit schools to give talks on th English civil War. We set our own standards on display using a simular set up to a battle display.
All firearm use was done by people who had passed a Musket test as set out by The Sealed Knot or the English Civil War Society.(ECWS). No child or Adult was allowed to hold any firearm that was loaded. Handling of the weapons (not live) was under close supervision and only in small groups.
When we did these displays in schools we only did any Firing if requested to do so and made our own inspection of the site to ensure it was possible to do so.
I am sorry if this is fragmented and brief but I should be working.
I would be happy to give anymore infomation or help if wanted

Tim Corbett
tim.corbett@virgin.net

Posted By Brian Dawson
Yes I agree. We should be trying to find ways of making it happen safely rather than always taking the easy option of saying no.

Posted By Bryn Maidment
Amanda

They need to be managed and controlled in the same way as any other contractor (the vast majority of whom are not externally standardised or monitored!).

That takes a bit of work, and in a scenario like this maybe some research. There are organisations that deal in competencies such as the ECWS mentioned by Tim previously. It's up to the client to call the shots (literally) by laying down what they do - no muskets, no arrows, no noise, no excitement etc.

I've been involved with a school who laid on a re-enactment and an it was an eventful (for there being no events)and very enjoyable afternoon. The schoolkids are still talking about it a year later!!

Sorry to go on but I was a bit peeved about the negative way this original thread was going. A bit of work, research, lateral thinking at times and a willingness to help things progress(as opposed to smothering them at birth!)are required - the fact that the subjct is slightly off the wall shouldn't matter.

I won't even mention my thoughts on the 'Street Juggler' thread - that was an even bigger hoot!!