Posted By Richard Forster For those of you who produce various guidance ,codes of practise etc for your employer do you have a natty phrase,that you include, regarding consultation/involving the union safety rep?Can you top HSE ?! From the Management regs ACOP we have- "Remember to consult with Safety Repesentatives' as their experience of workplace conditions and their commitment to health and safety means they often identify problem areas.This allows you to take prompt action.They can also have an important part to play in explaining safety measures to the workforce and gaining commitment"

Posted By Ian Harper I was alway told in my youth that, accountants take account of the risk, designers actually design the type of risk, managers manage the risk supervisors supervise the risk and....... the guy doing the job knows the risk. I was then told to prove the person who told me this was wrong. Hope this helps and sorry to the brickie with one finger missing who gave me this ditty, for forgetting his name and never proving him wrong. Regards Ian H

Posted By Philip McAleenan Ian, considering the number of people killed and injured each year your ditty maybe should read: "the guy doing the job takes the risk". Here is a point for discussion on the earlier parts of the ditty, and generally.If we consider that risk is the likelihood (calculated or otherwise) of an event occuring, then whether it happens or not is based to a large extent on chance. An if chance is a factor in work operations, can we really say that the operation is being managed suficiently? Regards, Philip

Posted By Brian Dawson Phillip you are surely not saying that only when there is zero risk is H&S properly managed. There is always a risk!

Posted By Stuart Nagle Richard. What an interesting topic. As a point, perhaps you should consider the construction industry, an area where union representation is particularly poor, and consider this in light of the construction industry having the poorest safety record throughout industry generally. it might be interesting to make a comparrison study between industry union representation and levels of industrial incident/accident records in those sectors to try and guage the perceived effectiveness of union representation in industry. Any Degree students reading this fancy a thesis subject !! Stuart Nagle

Posted By Philip McAleenan Brian, I am saying that a managed operation is one in which all the hazards have been considered and controls put in place so that the operation itself is without risk. If risk continues to exist, then there are insufficient controls, and that may be because of a variety of reasons, e.g. the nature of the hazard is not fully understood, the likelihood of an injurious event is perceived as remote (and therefore an acceptable risk), the costs of controlling the operation far outweigh the cost of an injury/fatality, a belief that risk cannot be eliminated. Bear in mind that a risk is basically the element of chance in an activity, whether it is 50:50 or 1:1,000,000. Every week millions of people put their money on lesser odds in the Lottery and most weeks one or more come up trumps. Work environments where the element of chance is retained (for whatever reason) are environments where every week someone's number comes up. And that is why risk costs the UK more the £20bn and the USA more than $127bn every year. And no matter what the odds are, no matter how well "managed" the activity, the next time could be that one in a million time because there is no chance rule that says that the activity has to be done a million times before the accident. In fact every time could theoretically be a one in a million time. "Risk Management" simply tries to improve the odds, I would suggest that proper work management removes the risk. I am happy to take my chances every week on the lottery where I stand to lose £1, but I don't want someone else giving me those odds when what I stand to lose is my life. I agree, there is always a risk when the operation is not properly managed. Manage it, and there is no risk. Regards, Philip