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#1 Posted : 20 August 2001 13:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ben Bishop
Thank you to all that commented on my accident prone or negligent thread. I do have some concern though at people who use this thread to vent anger and venom and theaten consequences from questions asked. For the purpose of my question the actual event and department were "staged" by way of a for example, a what if. Also sometimes it is realistic to look at all posibilities for events occuring and it just happens that an ongoing problem could be an individual and not some major management failure. All i requested were views and constructive comments from people who may be able to help.
Action such as dismissal or even a verbal warning is not given out easily by our organisation and extreme and clear negligence would have to be proved. So in summary, thank you for your valued comments to Nick, David, Ashley, Diane, Jay, Andy, Lee and Keith. To Robert Woods, as you can see you are outnumbered by people who want to help and take the use of this forum in the spirit it is meant.
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#2 Posted : 20 August 2001 15:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Brede
Well, thank goodness it was not for real.

Clearly the collective concerns of the H&S professionals and the 'robust' response of the union representative goes to show what a potential minefield we work in.

However the language used by some correspondents could have dire consequences. Labelling someone 'accident prone' would not look well in an industrial tribunal if it were used to evidence constructive dismissal. Perhaps our union colleague could share with us some of his experiences in that area.

At bottom one would hope that both employees and managements together with the H&S profession have a interest in building and sustaining safe working environments so we should do whatever we can to stay focussed on achieving that objective.
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#3 Posted : 21 August 2001 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By R.Woods
I understood from the outset that this must be a "staged" question [as i'am sure did everybody else] designed to find out how different people would view this potential dilemma. Is it the workers fault is it a management failure? My part in this exercise was to give the view of the person who would be defending this unfortunate worker. Would the accuser back down, would some meaningful dialogue be generated between the two people, would the risk assessments be available?

I apologise if my response was to realistic. As I have alreasdy mentioned it was obvious from the amount of detail that was included in your staged question that it must of been purely hypothetical. After all nobody would put so much real information onto an open site like this.

Once again sorry if my totaly "staged" response has upset you in any way.

Keep up the good work

Robert Woods TechSP
GMB Safety Rep

P.S I will email a copy of this debate to the college as way of letting them know what an excellent job you are doing.
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#4 Posted : 21 August 2001 10:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By R.Woods
David, nice to hear some common sense.
I came to the safety profession via the trade union route taking the TUC certificate.
I am not the firebrand that you may perceive through reading my response to this thread, but sometimes people leave themselves wide open.


You are absolutely correct that management, workers and unions need to work together regarding H&S. Low accident rates benifits all parties concerned.

I am employed at the moment as a OSH advice/information worker and see lots of people who contact me with similar stories to the thread. I also see employees that are permanently injured with WRULD's, cancers and other work related ailments all of which could be prevented by complying with legislation. Compliance can be facilitated by a good H&S manager if they are allowed to do their job.


I have found through experience that all too often pressure is put on the safety officer/manager to find a scapegoat after an accident, usually the person at the bottom of the line [as maybe in this hypothetical case]. My point being he who pays the piper calls the tune. How can/do OSH professionals deal with this situation. Or do we have to tow the line and keep our heads down or loose our jobs. There is plenty of legislation to protect union safety reps in such intances but very little for the likes of you and me, what if anything can wew do to rectify this?
Maybe this should be a new thread?

If you need any info on how unions work contact me anytime bob@klyworksafe.fsnet.co.uk or 01535 664462

Did you know that a unionised workplace has on average more than 50% fewer accidents than a non unionised one.

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#5 Posted : 21 August 2001 12:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker
Ben,

You certainly fooled me, if it was theorectical, why not say so - the responses would have been more instructive.

It was immediately obvious that you are not a H&S professional; I'd assumed a HR bod.

I've just viewed your organisation's web site, specifically the H&S dept and judging by their qualifications there seems to be several professionals there. Can't see you though, not even in HR. Are you a student?

Did the comment about James Tye go over your head?


As a matter of interest in my organisation all accident reports hit my desk. Any that say "operative should take more care" or "Due to operative not obeying instructions" and similar, immediately get investigated, as they are a direct indication that systems of work are not sufficent.

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#6 Posted : 22 August 2001 07:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By R.Woods
Ben you realy have stirred up a hornets nest,I'm expecting Jerry Springer to reply shortly. Lets hope it's been a learning experiance.
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#7 Posted : 22 August 2001 07:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ben Bishop
I'm going to keep my dark thoughts to myself in future!
I think i truly am satan
Yours feeling very alone
Ben.
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