Posted By Lord Lucan
Hi chaps/chapesses
I sincerely hope that one/some of you can help me with some advice and I’ll be as brief as I can. I think that at best I have been very naive.

It goes EXACTLY like this.

After many years employed I now operate on my own and am therefore a relatively new professionally qualified H&S consultant. Absolutely been brilliant in terms of quantity and quality of work. Anyway, one of my clients telephoned me some months ago stating that he may be able to put some business my way. Gave me a contact name – this person duly rang me (no qualifications in the H&S field and does not work in that particular sector of industry). Arranged to meet him in a lay-by off the A1 – (I know should know better eh?). He gave me an H&S Policy from the prospective client and asked me to look through it and tell him how much to do a new one. Gave him a figure and he then arranged a date for me to visit the prospective client. He then asked for my CV – duly obliged, then the date was cancelled – re-arranged another date, cancelled again. Re-arranged another, which coincided with Mr A1 lay-by being on holiday. So….. visited the client (H&S manager & director) I mentioned that I wasn’t impressed with the format of the Policy (13 years old) but will do it as requested. H&S manager stated ”glad you said that we don’t want anther like that”. Myself…. shocked. To cut a long story short it then transpires that what they want involves a large amount of work, assessments, training, documents etc etc. They asked me for my fees and that the deal was for Mr A1 lay-by to ‘introduce’ them to someone within the H&S sector. Told them I’d sort and get back to them – obviously the business was 3 times (in terms of money) to that of what I had originally expected. Mr A1 lay-by returns from holiday and calls me asking how I had got on, to which I immediately stated “I owe you some money as this job is nothing like you originally told me”. His IMMEDIATE response was “Oh no, everything comes through me, you invoice me and I pay you.

Yes I know – very naïve eh? I stated “well nothing at all is agreed yet and anyway the manager I dealt with is on holiday themselves now and I’ll have a word and get back to you”. Monday of this week I get a call from the client and to further discuss their requirements, making further progress but nothing concrete. Yesterday, I have a call from Mr A1 lay-by – had to ignore as I was busy training but I sent a quick text that I would call him later. Lunch break call from prospective client asking “what’s going off as we have received an invoice from Mr A1 lay-by for some work you haven’t done”. Uh????
Later a voice message from Mr A1 lay-by saying he was disgusted with me and my antics and that he has sent me an email – which after reading later accuses me of ”‘stealing’ other peoples jobs you were sub-contracted to do….. and I will be invoicing you direct for the monies lost and suing you for breach of verbal contract”.

Honest folks – there was no verbal contract the only time he mentioned anything about method of payment and that everything went through him was when I had firmed up the work. Indeed Mr A1 lay-by moaned about the client and THEIR un-professionalism. The client spoke to me late yesterday and confirmed that Mr A1 lay-by had been asked to ‘introduce’ someone and said that he was probably upset because they had put him off regarding some work within his sphere of industry.

Stupido eh? And I guess when you’re new like I am you learn and take a few knocks along the way. Personally speaking Mr A1 lay-by has now – after a quick chat with the client yesterday – probably irretrievably ruined HIS working relationship with the client. He has also probably missed out on a ‘potential earner’ fort long-term relationship as opposed to his allegedly “one-off” job and I have now learnt another lesson. Prior to this if any person/body/agency has asked me to do any work it has always been on the basis of an ‘introduction fee’ or a percentage of the order. Both situations have worked very well and mutually to-date. I am certainly guilty of not clarifying/finding out his ‘terms and conditions’ and I suppose it will come as no surprise to you that I have been done twice already for doing work for someone and not being paid, stupido again eh? I am fairly good at risk assessments, honest.

OK so what should/could I do now? Can he invoice me and sue me? Advice so far says there was no contract his ‘terms and conditions’ were at best very ambiguous and that basically it appears he wanted you to get the work, probably build it up and ‘pimp’ me. I have since found out that he had increased my original figure by 60% - his cut, for little more than a phone call and obviously he was short-sighted and not happy with that and wanted further to increase ‘margin’.

Sorry for the long note, any advice folks?

Posted By Rob T
I don't think you'll need a lawyer - his threat to sue you must have some proof of a contract and being on the basis of "balance of probabilities" he has the job of proving there was a contract (I presume that there were only the two of you there so it's his word against yours). It appears as though he was asked to introduce someone and as such, if there were a contract it would be with the company concerned and not yourself. A conversation on the A1 lay-by would be laughed out of court. Call his bluff and tell him to get stuffed.

Good luck
Rob

Posted By TouchBasehse
Rob T is correct, forget it and move on.

David

Posted By gham
You could either tell him to go forth and multiply or ward him off with a scolicitors letter, or even hire three men and a white van.

He will have to become the persuant.......... how long are you going to wait for any OFFICIAL correspondants from his representatives......... don't hold you breath, he's pulling your wire

G

Posted By Lord Lucan
My sincere thanks to you all, both on this forum and direct.

Developments since my posting:
It appears he has been economical with the truth and it is a knee jerk reaction. Apparrantly he NEVER quoted for any work at all. The client informs me the instruction to Mr A1 lay-by was strictly on an introduction basis. Anyway, after some further advice I have replied to Mr A1 lay-by allowing him an option to backtrack in that if he is adamant those are his terms and conditions then I 'walk away' from the job (Doesn't start until Nov). Forunately I am so busy I really don't care whether I do the job or not but I do believe that I have a moral and professional duty to 'hang on in there' where possible. Basically, until a professional and mutually agreeable benefit can be agreed on all THREE fronts - I'm out of there.

I'll keep you posted.

Yes! I know - I still have problems with coming to terms with being too trusting.

Posted By Merv Newman
If we are introduced to a new client, we will pay 20% of the net contract price to that agent. Any subsequent contracts/projects will result from our service and will have nothing to do with the original agent. Stuff em.

Merv

Posted By Lord Lucan
Update lads:
It appears that his charges are 60% - obviously that is totally and utterly out of order and very unfair predominantly to the client but I believe also to myself. I have told him that unless a mutually agreeable benefit can be agreed between all three parties I shall not be entering the clients premises to do any work whatsoever. I believe personally however that he can run and jump because I couldn't and wouldn't work with/through him now.

Ironically, it's only me at this stage that is out pocket, what with a day to visit client, petrol etc etc. Still, a valuable lesson learnt and I just have to say again that all you people out there and members of this Institution have yet again been a great help - the advice has been fantastic both on this forum and direct.

You will not be surpirsed, after a number of variants where sent to me direct, I was up until 02.00 hours this morning setting out MY 'terms and conditions'.

Nuff said.

Regards

Posted By Lord Lucan
Thanks John
Yes indeed it is HIS client and similarly he initally contacted me to do the work he cannot. Usually I pay 20% of net order value so I think I was in the right area. Anyway, I'm cutting my losses and getting out of there as he wanted 60%. Oh well he can have 100% of nothing now.
Regards

Posted By John Watson
Ken

You are getting onto very thin ice, and whist I agree with you, if you do the work you leave yourself open. I think you have three options:

1. Seek legal advice yourself (If you are in your local chamber of commerce this can often be free)
2. Walk away from the contract
3. Come to some agreement with another co-consultancy whereby they invoice for the work, but sub it back to you. Whilst someone is going to take a cut it gives you some protectino if this really gets nasty.

Regards

John

Posted By Eric McCann
Just picked up on this message. We got caught in a similar situation. We now use NDA's, Non Disclosure Agrreements, these prevent either party using information given (even if it is in a lay by on the A1). Perhaps you should ask him for a copy of this agreement that you have not signed and therefore I assume a free agent. Again I agree with some of the comments especially avbout the chamber of commerce, you can join them for a nominal fee and then gain free legal advice

Eric