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Fisher900116  
#1 Posted : 18 March 2015 23:00:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Fisher900116

Currently reviewing some of our site practices around electrical safety and I have the following question I need help on: What qualifications or level of competence is required to reset low voltage switch gear. For example if a machine causes a fault to overload which then trips out the LV molded case circuit breaker? I would deem that should only be carried out by an electrician or someone internal who have received some training?? I've reviewed HSE guidance but am struggling to back up that this should be only be carried out with someone who is familiar with working with electricity. If anyone can advice on any courses for internal personnel with no electrical back ground and any relevant guidance please. Thank you in advance
SHV  
#2 Posted : 19 March 2015 09:37:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SHV

Fisher I think is depend on your organization electrical isolation procedure, what level of competency you defined for crew who are working on Low Voltage switch gears? Yes I agree with you only electrician who has received adequate training SHV
PIKEMAN  
#3 Posted : 19 March 2015 10:41:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
PIKEMAN

I do not agree that pressing a "reset" button requires you to be a sparky, or even electrically trained. When I worked at ICI the rule was that operators (eg) could press reset buttons. If the MCCB tripped repeatedly then they called the sparky. Only sparkys could fault find, of course.
Fisher900116  
#4 Posted : 19 March 2015 19:01:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Fisher900116

Thanks for replying, we currently allow operators to reset thermal overloads in MCC panels at the moment but we have developed some training to allow them to do this along with dead fronting the panels to prevent them coming into contact with any live parts. However I'm still not sure or confident that they should be allowed to reset LV. If there is a trip on the LV side them I suspect that there is a significant fault on the system to trip this and not the MCC, which would require further investigation.
LZ  
#5 Posted : 19 March 2015 21:51:35(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
LZ

Best place to start would be to ensure that those who are doing the switching are qualified, trained and competent. There needs to be a protocol established within the plant. The the way to control the activity is to make only 'Authorised Persons' appointed in writing signed by the plant/factory manager. Resetting breakers will only tackle the symptom not the route cause. It must be defined why and how it tripped in the first place because they do not trip for nothing! Have a LOTO & PTW training course for everyone to raise awareness regarding the hazards and identification of risks. Train and appoint LOTO coordinators who will manage the plants electrical activities during PM shut downs and contractors. Monitor and audit closely the PTW system to ensure it is being adopted correctly. Specific safety meetings with maintenance staff are essential to get to know what is happening, when and why! Frankly HV/LV should make no difference the procedure should be followed all the same as a tickle on LV this week may be thump of the HV next week.. god forbid
paul.skyrme  
#6 Posted : 19 March 2015 22:00:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Fisher, Firstly you mention machines tripping moulded case circuit breakers. Then you go on to mention motor overloads in motor control centres. I think firstly we need to assess what equipment you are talking about. However, personally, I would not be allowing operators entry to MCC panels or machinery control panels to reset, end of. If these are DB's to be operated by ordinary persons under the applicable standard, then that is a different story. Now if you have unskilled people closing perhaps 2kA breakers onto a dead short, then you really need to be looking at your procedures. Once again more info required. LZ, There is one heck of a difference between HV & LV, there is NO WAY that ANYONE should be "playing" with HV unless they are totally trained and competent. End of conversation. You have, a, chance, of survival, from an LV electric shock, you have a good chance of being burned to a crisp from HV contact. So a big difference. I would be interested to know what you are classing as HV & LV?
Fisher900116  
#7 Posted : 20 March 2015 11:45:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Fisher900116

LZ - Thank you, this is the similar approach I think we need to take. paul.skyrme - Sorry that I haven’t been more specific, the machines in question are Pellet Presses, they have a 250kw motor which has a thermal overload protection device within the Motor Control Centre (MCC) if there is a fault. The site does not employee an electrician and relies on electrical contractors for any electrical work, the practice they have been doing in the past was that operators would go and reset the thermal overloads in MCC panels and LV switch rooms. Until recently operators had not had any previous training on the hazards or the risk of doing this until they received basic training in electrical safety for access into MCC panels and a formal SSWi implemented. (Note: I also raised my concerns over operators accessing MCC panels). As part of this training operator were then advised not to reset any LV switchgear. However the site has experience a number of “trips” on the LV switchgear due to overloads on the Presses caused by sudden blockage of product, they have carried out a review of the setting of the thermal overloads in the MCC panel to ensure these are set correctly so that any fault should trip in the MCC and not on the LV. However they have requested that they now want to allow operators to reset LV switchgear (MCCB) if they also “trip” out. I’ve advised then that they should call an electrical engineering out to site and have advised them this should only be done by a trained and competent person. (i.e. trained in 17th edition, familiar with HSG 85 and also has additional electrical safe training in LV). In my original post I requested what qualifications or level of competence is required to reset low voltage switch gear and any relevant guidance to demonstrate that operators without any knowledge, training or competence should not be carrying out this task. I am currently being challenge on this and need to provide information to the reasons whey they shouldn’t be doing this other than just my own opinion and previous experience from other companies where this was only carried out by an electrical approved contractor.
paul.skyrme  
#8 Posted : 20 March 2015 18:57:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

Fisher, I am seriously struggling to understand what you have here. One step at a time, because it makes a difference as to what level of competence these people need. First. You seem to have machinery under the machinery directive yes?
Expert Engineers  
#9 Posted : 10 August 2021 08:33:23(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Expert Engineers

The Motor Control Center Panels (MCC Panel) are used in large industrial and commercial application to control motors from a central location.

Alan Haynes  
#10 Posted : 10 August 2021 10:08:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

Reported
thanks 4 users thanked Alan Haynes for this useful post.
peter gotch on 10/08/2021(UTC), RVThompson on 10/08/2021(UTC), Roundtuit on 10/08/2021(UTC), A Kurdziel on 10/08/2021(UTC)
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