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wombleflow  
#1 Posted : 11 January 2016 10:23:08(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wombleflow

One of our operatives have asked what our stance is on driving to site in dangerous conditions. Currently it is the operatives responsibility to get themselves to the place of work. If they can't they have the option of taking a days holiday or taking a day unpaid leave.
My concern is that by taking this line we MAY put the operatives in a position where they feel that they have to drive in dangerous conditions in order to get paid and not use that ever important holiday allowance.
There is also the quandary of what could be classed as a dangerous condition. One driver may feel that it is safe to drive with an inch of snow and another may feel its unsafe to drive with just a sprinkling of snow, for example. There is also the potential for this to be used as an excuse to not work but get paid.

What does everyone else think?
Invictus  
#2 Posted : 11 January 2016 10:40:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

What does your risk assessment say?

I think it is unreasonable to force people to drive in bad weather and this is what you are doing by forcing them to take a days holiday or unpaid leave. Not sure that would be acceptabole in court.
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 11 January 2016 12:01:30(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Given there are other road users with different vehicles and driving capabilities any policy needs to recognise that there will be factors wholly beyond the control of the individual.

Those fortunate to have rugged 4x4's and the skills to operate them can still end up getting nowhere when stuck behind a large rear wheel saloon spinning its drive wheels or a jack knifed lorry – even a journey of a few miles can experience wildly different road conditions.

If they are employed at a single static location a "snow day" policy is logical given that local authority highways teams do occasionally get caught out by conditions preventing gritting.

For a business working at changing locations over winter months a bit more consideration is required through assessment for other factors arising from adverse weather e.g. damage or localised flooding to access roads affecting not only attendance but also site deliveries and availability of the emergency services.
Ron Hunter  
#5 Posted : 11 January 2016 12:06:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ron Hunter

Invictus wrote:
What does your risk assessment say?

quote]

Seriously? A risk assessment for employees driving to and from their place of work?!

The OP presumably has that leave option written down as employee policy. Beyond that, the decision and duty is down to the employee.

jay  
#6 Posted : 11 January 2016 12:38:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
jay

"Dangerous driving conditions" is a fairly generic term, even when it occasionally snows etc. It depends on several variables that it is not practicable to have a rigid "policy" on this.

However, we used highlight "guidance" to our employees, based on the Met Office warnings, to listen to the local media for traffic news etc and work from home--obviously, not all can. In case we had to close the site temporarily to clear the snow, then that day would not be counted from their normal holiday entitlement.
HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 11 January 2016 12:50:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

quote=Ron Hunter]
Invictus wrote:
What does your risk assessment say?

quote]

Seriously? A risk assessment for employees driving to and from their place of work?!

The OP presumably has that leave option written down as employee policy. Beyond that, the decision and duty is down to the employee.



I don't think that's what he means Ron. I think he was referring to staff that may start at different locations each day. I would agree with you for someone with a single location how they get to work and home is up to them and I would not do an assessment. But where the start location may differ each day I think a company policy should be in place. Sorry I don't have any specific answers it's a very difficult topic!
biker1  
#8 Posted : 11 January 2016 13:03:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

A difficult subject, in which there are several factors.

The ideal would be to allow employees to work from home; however, this just isn't possible for all. Where it is, it would be logical to go with this option, although that would mean providing suitable facilities to enable employees to do so.

We also live in a country that does not suffer extreme weather in terms of snow and ice often enough to compel the government, both national and local, to adequately prepare for it. When we get an inch or two of snow, the country grinds to a standstill, making us a laughing stock with e.g. Scandinavian countries. I seem to remember a court ruling not so long ago that determined that local councils are not legally obliged to grit the roads; cheers guys, why not just tell them not to bother?

We also have a declining standard in driving skills, and not enough practice for motorists to get used to driving in adverse conditions. The average British motorist is barely competent to drive in good conditions, let alone in bad weather where special skill is required.

The declining condition of our roads is also a factor; the motorways are generally well maintained, but away from these on A and B roads the situation is gradually getting worse. Damage and wear to road surfaces are often badly addressed, and of course when covered in snow/ice such defects are hidden until you hit them.

All of these factors make it difficult for employers to have a workable solution to bad weather conditions, and at the end of the day individual employers need to arrive at contingency plans that work for them.
Invictus  
#9 Posted : 11 January 2016 13:20:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Brian Hagyard wrote:
quote=Ron Hunter]
Invictus wrote:
What does your risk assessment say?

quote]

Seriously? A risk assessment for employees driving to and from their place of work?!

The OP presumably has that leave option written down as employee policy. Beyond that, the decision and duty is down to the employee.



I don't think that's what he means Ron. I think he was referring to staff that may start at different locations each day. I would agree with you for someone with a single location how they get to work and home is up to them and I would not do an assessment. But where the start location may differ each day I think a company policy should be in place. Sorry I don't have any specific answers it's a very difficult topic!



I was referring to working in different locations as part of work. If you have read other posts on this subject I have always said it is down to the employee if traveling too and from work to do so how they wish.
Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 11 January 2016 13:49:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Getting personnel safely to and from a particular construction site (especially remote rural locations over winter) should be part of the overall project plan in the same way that for example lifting operations provision days out for windage, riverbank projects consider reduced site hours arising from tides and/or elevated flows to ensure the project is not hit with late delivery penalties.

The company should remain cognisent that in adverse weather employees start travel earlier / finish travel later due to prevalent road conditions which on top of their paid site hours for the day will make them more tired and fatigued.
bob youel  
#12 Posted : 11 January 2016 16:35:54(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
bob youel

if a person works at one permanent place then they are not at work going to or from that permanent place so its not the employers concern how they get to work or get home from work [think of the millions & millions that do that evey day!]

H&S applies to a person as they step out of their door if a person has no fixed abode and works at different places from their home each day without going into a permanent base then this is a completely different matter [a big big big bag of worms!!!] --- Additionally where people having got to work from home then drive from that fixed base in inclenent weather to various locations & then back to base to then go home this is yet another bag of worms therefore I suggest that the question is given to HR and your specialist legal advisers [who get paid lots of £ to give advice about such areas]
wombleflow  
#13 Posted : 11 January 2016 17:36:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
wombleflow

Thanks everyone, I'm glad to see that I am not going mad and need to think about this in greater detail.
I didn't put it in my original question, as I forgot, but bob youel thanks for your comments as this is my situation. Our operatives get paid to go to work, sometimes via our fixed office address, and their travelling time is counted as part of there working hours although they don't get paid to come home. Legal advice seems to be the best solution.
RayRapp  
#14 Posted : 11 January 2016 17:59:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
RayRapp

As Bob alludes, employers are not legally responsible for their staff getting to and from work, unless they are travelling is an integral aspect of their work.

Employers do have a duty of care for their staff which as rule starts and finishes at their front door. Some people need to man up and accept the employee must take responsibility in deciding when it is safe to travel and when it is not. If staff do not come into work because of the latter then employers rightly have the choice to deduct pay or to count it as a leave day.
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