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JEvans2013  
#1 Posted : 17 August 2016 09:24:31(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
JEvans2013

Being in a Local Authority we have a number of Foster Carers who, take responsibility for children on the authorities behalf. During a meeting yesterday, it came to light that incidents involving Foster Carer's were not being officially recorded. The Foster Carer's are self employed to take on the children's care for the council. To my mind, however unofficial, this is a contract as the Foster Family is taking on a role that the council has asked them to fulfil, this means that as an authority we have a responsibility to both the child and the Foster Carer and therefore incidents should be getting recorded and reported as appropriate. So I was wondering what others thought or if anyone has experience of similar?
Brian Hagyard  
#2 Posted : 17 August 2016 09:43:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Is fostering considered employment? It was my understanding that you get an "allowance" to cover the cost of looking after the child and not actually paid. I would have thought you do standard checks on foster parents as part of your safeguarding procedure and registration procedure. If there are incidents I am not sure H&S is the correct framework for dealing with this. I consider the situation totally different to a residential care home where people are not living as part of an extended family but I look forward to other peoples comments.
kevkel  
#3 Posted : 17 August 2016 15:56:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
kevkel

Brian is correct in my opinion. Incident reporting is a part of the care management for young people but it does not fall within the remit of health and safety per se. Foster carers are definitely not classed as employees of the local authority, not even vicariously.
toe  
#4 Posted : 17 August 2016 22:44:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Hmmmm..... I'm not sure. No experience with fostering but we are involved in shared lives, i.e. adult placements in a family living situation. The local authority has a Duty of Care towards the person to ensure they are kept safe, e.g. safeguarding, safe environment, PVG checks etc. The OP is correct in that incidents with the child must be officially recorded and brought to the attention of the care manager ensuring that regular reviews of the care is carried out and includes recent incident. This will ensure that they are getting the correct level of care and will establish if the placement is working or not. So... in my line of work (care provider) it is the H&S function to ensure that the placement is fit for purpose, for example we conduct an environmental check of the premises to ensure that the placement will work for the individual.
Brian Hagyard  
#5 Posted : 18 August 2016 13:43:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

toe wrote:
Hmmmm..... I'm not sure. No experience with fostering but we are involved in shared lives, i.e. adult placements in a family living situation. The local authority has a Duty of Care towards the person to ensure they are kept safe, e.g. safeguarding, safe environment, PVG checks etc. The OP is correct in that incidents with the child must be officially recorded and brought to the attention of the care manager ensuring that regular reviews of the care is carried out and includes recent incident. This will ensure that they are getting the correct level of care and will establish if the placement is working or not. So... in my line of work (care provider) it is the H&S function to ensure that the placement is fit for purpose, for example we conduct an environmental check of the premises to ensure that the placement will work for the individual.
It may sit with the H&S function in your setting Toe - and I don't disagree with any of the checks you are undertaking. I am just not sure you would use the HASAW framework (such as RIDDOR etc.) rather than setting your own procedures, and I think it could just as easily fall to lets say the Social Services department to control.
Invictus  
#6 Posted : 18 August 2016 13:54:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

Don't you become Guardian/parent ad litem, in place of the parent. Then doesn't this just come under what a parent would do. Not sure RIDDOR or HSWA even comes into it. The homes are checked out by social workers as being suitable or not in some of the homes I have seen, they vet or DBS the foster carers and any injuries etc are reoported through to the social worker, this would involve police involvement and not HSE.
Brian Hagyard  
#7 Posted : 18 August 2016 15:18:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Invictus wrote:
Don't you become Guardian/parent ad litem, in place of the parent. Then doesn't this just come under what a parent would do. Not sure RIDDOR or HSWA even comes into it. The homes are checked out by social workers as being suitable or not in some of the homes I have seen, they vet or DBS the foster carers and any injuries etc are reoported through to the social worker, this would involve police involvement and not HSE.
That is what I was trying to get at Invictus you put it so much better than me. Been a funny old weak and my brain is working even less than usual.
toe  
#8 Posted : 18 August 2016 23:16:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
toe

Another Hmmmmmm…. from me. When the local authority take guardianship of a child or adult (which can happen for lots of reasons) they become responsible for the child’s welfare and safety, and this will be detailed in the guardianship order (in the absence of one, legal guardian will be implied). They can ensure this by lots of ways, e.g. hospitalisation, care home, fostering, adolescent units etc. Foster care is designed to be temporary and does not give legal guardianship to the individual unless a special guardianship order has been issued to the foster parents, which is rare, but sometimes happens. When a child is adopted it ends the legal relationship between the parents and/or guardian. If a child was injured whilst being cared for in a private care provider setting or local authorities children’s care home, the HSAWA and RIDDOR applies and the H&S function would have a considerably input into the safer care of the individual. The crux of the matter is the HSAWA has no remit in a private household and relationship between parent/child. When a child is under the care of the local council, care provider, foster parent etc… the HSAWA applies. Invictus and Brian, why would social work ‘check out the homes as being suitable’ as you put it if, if the HSAWA does not apply? You are right to a degree though, if a child can be fostered, it would be accepted that it is the right placement for the child and would not need any specialist support in their upbringing. Note: The function of Health and Safety not only applies to the criminal side of the law (HSAWA, RIDDOR) it also applies to the civil side and our common law duty of care. The level of care that is afforded to children varies massively e.g. age, behaviour, disability, emotional wellbeing, education, mental health, etc…
Invictus  
#9 Posted : 19 August 2016 10:40:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Invictus

toe wrote:
Another Hmmmmmm…. from me. When the local authority take guardianship of a child or adult (which can happen for lots of reasons) they become responsible for the child’s welfare and safety, and this will be detailed in the guardianship order (in the absence of one, legal guardian will be implied). They can ensure this by lots of ways, e.g. hospitalisation, care home, fostering, adolescent units etc. Foster care is designed to be temporary and does not give legal guardianship to the individual unless a special guardianship order has been issued to the foster parents, which is rare, but sometimes happens. When a child is adopted it ends the legal relationship between the parents and/or guardian. If a child was injured whilst being cared for in a private care provider setting or local authorities children’s care home, the HSAWA and RIDDOR applies and the H&S function would have a considerably input into the safer care of the individual. The crux of the matter is the HSAWA has no remit in a private household and relationship between parent/child. When a child is under the care of the local council, care provider, foster parent etc… the HSAWA applies. Invictus and Brian, why would social work ‘check out the homes as being suitable’ as you put it if, if the HSAWA does not apply? You are right to a degree though, if a child can be fostered, it would be accepted that it is the right placement for the child and would not need any specialist support in their upbringing. Note: The function of Health and Safety not only applies to the criminal side of the law (HSAWA, RIDDOR) it also applies to the civil side and our common law duty of care. The level of care that is afforded to children varies massively e.g. age, behaviour, disability, emotional wellbeing, education, mental health, etc…
I think your wrong because you don't get paid for looking atfter them you get an allowance to see to thier needs so that you are not out of pocket and this is the difference no national insurance or tax taken, so the home is not a workplace.
aud  
#10 Posted : 19 August 2016 11:56:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Quick search confirms my initial thoughts: From HSE website FAQs. "Does HSE regulate foster care? Other bodies regulate fostering. Carers are subject to a thorough assessment process to ensure their suitability to foster children and receive training, monitoring and supervision. For this reason, HSE would not generally regulate foster care. Further information on regulation of foster care, can be found in the fostering service regulations link to external website and Department of Health minimum standards PDF link to external website". Agencies (not just local authorities BTW) manager foster care through other legislation (Childrens Act etc.) No H&S legislation applies. Foster carers are not 'at work'.
Cristozan  
#11 Posted : 05 May 2022 10:11:11(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Cristozan

In this situation, it is worth strengthening control over corruption in the authorities, in my opinion.

kerrywentling  
#12 Posted : 05 May 2022 10:28:51(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
kerrywentling

It is a pity that there is a biased attitude towards foster families and foster parents because of such people in society.

PDarlow  
#13 Posted : 05 May 2022 11:05:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
PDarlow

I agree with aud. If in a care setting such as a care home, that is a place of work and health and safety legislation applies but is regulated by CQC not HSE. Fostering is in the home - not considered a place of work as no one is employed and earns a salary.

By the way, my wife to be works for a county council in adult and community care so I have limited knowledge.

Not quite sure the message of the last two posters are meant to reflect but hey. 

Roundtuit  
#14 Posted : 05 May 2022 13:07:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: PDarlow Go to Quoted Post
Not quite sure the message of the last two posters are meant to reflect but hey. 
 

Given they are in response to a thread which naturally halted back in 2016 it is probable they are initial attempts (like many similar exhumed topics on the public forums) in posting click-bait

Think we are missing a disclaimer about checking the date of threads to see if the advice/disccussion reflected regulations and scoietal attitudes at that time.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Brian Hagyard on 05/05/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/05/2022(UTC), Brian Hagyard on 05/05/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 05 May 2022 13:07:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: PDarlow Go to Quoted Post
Not quite sure the message of the last two posters are meant to reflect but hey. 
 

Given they are in response to a thread which naturally halted back in 2016 it is probable they are initial attempts (like many similar exhumed topics on the public forums) in posting click-bait

Think we are missing a disclaimer about checking the date of threads to see if the advice/disccussion reflected regulations and scoietal attitudes at that time.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Brian Hagyard on 05/05/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/05/2022(UTC), Brian Hagyard on 05/05/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 05/05/2022(UTC)
Brian Hagyard  
#16 Posted : 05 May 2022 13:35:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

I have to agree - was shocked to see i was the 1st person to respond to this post - thought i must have been posting in my sleep (some people may think thats normal for me!) I think there is some motive other than H&S at 11

thanks 1 user thanked Brian Hagyard for this useful post.
peter gotch on 05/05/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#17 Posted : 05 May 2022 13:41:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Whoever or whatever the posters in #11 and #12 may be, that each is a first time poster means that the comments should probably be treated with a large dose of salt. P

kerrywentling  
#18 Posted : 06 May 2022 06:44:43(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
kerrywentling

It is a pity that there is a biased attitude towards foster families and foster parents because of such people in society. Children from orphanages are afraid to get into foster families precisely because of such situations. When an adoptive parent applies to an adoption agency, he must understand how responsible it is to raise a child. And I have to take care of this child as my own. Otherwise, it makes no sense to take responsibility for which a person is not ready. After all, the healthy psyche of the child is at stake, and it is very important not to let an irresponsible person spoil this child's life.

Brian Hagyard  
#19 Posted : 06 May 2022 07:12:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: kerrywentling Go to Quoted Post

It is a pity that there is a biased attitude towards foster families and foster parents because of such people in society. 

Im not sure where you think that Bias is on this on this forum. I know Foster Parents and Familys that have adopted children and i have amazing respect for them - but as i said years ago i dont consider them empoyers covered by HASAW legislation. You may also want to read the forum rules - i did not open your link as it was not clear where it would lead but advertising comercial activities is prohibited.

thanks 1 user thanked Brian Hagyard for this useful post.
peter gotch on 06/05/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#20 Posted : 06 May 2022 07:21:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Reported

kerrywetling appears from her Oregon agency link in the second post to be a keyboard warrior from the USA

the rage being expressed is about non-UK systems and non-UK legislation

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 06/05/2022(UTC), RVThompson on 09/05/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 06/05/2022(UTC), RVThompson on 09/05/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#21 Posted : 06 May 2022 07:21:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Reported

kerrywetling appears from her Oregon agency link in the second post to be a keyboard warrior from the USA

the rage being expressed is about non-UK systems and non-UK legislation

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 06/05/2022(UTC), RVThompson on 09/05/2022(UTC), peter gotch on 06/05/2022(UTC), RVThompson on 09/05/2022(UTC)
Pirellipete  
#22 Posted : 06 May 2022 15:32:57(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

It's Safeguarding issues/concerns regulated by the CQC isn't it ?  (Care Quality Commission)

firesafety101  
#23 Posted : 10 May 2022 16:08:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I have been a Foster Carer.  The way I read the initial point is the accidents involve the Carer and not the children.  In that case IMO the incidents are just the same as a parent of children having an accident which is not reportable to anyone as the child is not involved.

If the children are involved in the accident then report to the child's Social Worker.

Roundtuit  
#24 Posted : 10 May 2022 16:36:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

OP's last recorded visit July 2019

Roundtuit  
#25 Posted : 10 May 2022 16:36:06(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

OP's last recorded visit July 2019

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