Rank: New forum user 
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I know this topic was discussed back in 2010, however I am constantly surprised that when I visit 'Public Sector', sales orientated or call centre related offices, that their staff seemed crammed into offices with very little room to sit or to move around.
Geographic areas that I have seen this are: predominately London areas, Southern and the North Eastern parts of the country.
As some of these sites have been Council controlled offices does this mean that the council Health and Safety teams in these locations are turning a blind eye to this H&S aspect?
Whilst I appreciate that office environments are generally classed as low risk, and 'Management' ultimately dictate where departments are located and who sits where. I am sure however that you will agree H&S Managers should be consulted on the statutory and legal aspects that should be adhered to and assess the risks.
It appears to me from the sites that I have visited, that 'Cramming' is becoming the norm as opposed to the exception.
If this is indeed the case:
1. Should HSE be taking a stronger stance on this?
2. Or should the ACOP be revised to reflect what is actually happening in our office areas?
Have any other forum members experienced this?
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Rank: Super forum user 
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11 cubic metres it used to be, measuring nothing above 6ft.
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Rank: New forum user
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I know and that is the point I am making, it is not being observed....
How can it be enforced, when councils are not enforcing the rule?
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Rank: Super forum user
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You don't count anything above 3m. It's still 11 cubic metres and it's very difficult not to comply. If 3m high then only 3.7 square metres inclusive of e.g. corridors, which would be "crammed".
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Rank: Super forum user
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Could this be because a lot of the places you have mentioned come under local government regulation not the HSE. ( I believe that the HMRC got into trouble a few years ago about it's offices in Nottingham over this issue- they are inspected by the HSE)
From what I have seen EHO/local government inspectors area bit rubbish when it comes to the wider implications of H&S as they seem to be specialists in food safety.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Offices in general are not high risk workplaces. For what reason, other than a complaint, would an LA inspector go looking for this issue? We are barely even 'allowed' into places that ARE high risk these days....
If it were an LA office then it would actually be HSE enforced...and they'll have the same problem anyway.
I don't disagree with the comment about food safety specialists being expected to be equally H&S skilled....but even then, why would a food officer be hanging out in a crammed public sector office?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Oh dear... One of my hobby horses! I've said it before .....
The legal obligation is for "sufficient" floor area, height and unoccupied space... Whether a room has insufficient area, height or unoccupied space depends on what is being done, amongst other things...
The 11m3 'limit' in the schedule to the regulations does not apply to 'new' (post workplace regs) workplaces, and can only be invoked for "older" workplaces where the workplace was covered by the factories act prior to the workplace regs coming in....
Too many people seem to believe the 'limit' applies in all workplaces....
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Rank: New forum user
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Thank you for the responses, in an age where UK is no longer deemed to have an industry except in the form of customer services, in the form of call centres, recruitment and banking services.
It appear that office management is way behind the curve in regard to having a H&S Culture. With musculoskeletal and stress now high on the HSE stats should there now be a change of direction in how these areas are assessed?
I have no problem with the legislation, but only clarity on how it can be enforced... With the devolved responsibilities being passed to local government and insurance companies, who themselves appear to flout the regulations. It seems to me that if we not careful, offices will become the sweat shops of the 21st century....
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Rank: Super forum user
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Steve
Tis true...but the 2013 ACoP does say that this level of space should be taken as a minimum for 'most ' workplaces. It draws no distinction over age or make reference to the Factories Act. I would rather suggest that it means what is says - despite not being a specific legal requirement as you correctly highlight. I'm aware that the wording was not always thus.
11m3 can, of course, be deviated from but my reading of the ACoP is that this should be by exception rather than by default simply because of the age of the building and I would likely to need to justify why my workplace didn't count along with 'most' others were I to do so.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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As with all design the "humans" only get considered after the event existing property or new build.
You will only know this subject is taken seriously when the developers/agents sell or rent office space based on number of "seats" as opposed to the current sq ft / m2 pricing.
Councils having sold off much of their property portfolio years ago only rent back the absolute minimum amount of office space possible.
A lot of my local authority services (trading standards, planning etc.) have now managed to cram themselves back in to the main town hall building having previously been scattered across the town in various leased buildings by function
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Rank: Super forum user
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In 9999 the space it states for Floor space in adminstration offices is 5.0 square metre.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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The reality is, so what if the employer does not provide the correct space, what is the employee going to do about it ?
Yep they may leave, but do employers really care that much.
If they complained to the HSE, would they care ? Would they do anything about it.
Sorry in a slightly cynical mood, but some employers feel these rules and others don't apply to them as nothing will come of it if they just ignore it. They would have to be quite a prised employee for them to give a monkeys.
Chris
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Methinks there's a far greater chance of an employer being taken to task under Equality Legislation on this issue. Health, Safety and Welfare? No chance.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The way I tackle this issue: I gather evidence that the restricted space is a hazard, and causing problems. So ask the staff to keep records which will tell you how often people have tripped, collided with someone or something, spilled coffee.
Also look under desks, are those areas crammed with stuff that shoud be stored elsewhere but there's no room, are postures at workstations affected because staff can't move or stretch their legs under those desks.
Are the tops of desks over-cluttered because of lack of storage for each employee so that arm postures on the desks are restricted, not even enough space to move a mouse?
Gather evidence. Oh, and compare workstation space with the desk space that managers have. Photographs might say it all!
JohnW
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Rank: Super forum user
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Just a thought. If you are transporting cattle, there are legal restrictions on, space, travel times, ventilation requirements, and water provisions.
There are no legal restrictions for humans being transported; people travelling on buses, trains, Glasgow subway, and the London underground are often crammed to capacity.
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Rank: Super forum user
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toe,
What a brilliant observation !! :o)
I will be using that often! With credit to toe :o))
JohnW
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Rank: Forum user
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It's not really how much space, its what you do with it. Submariners seem to cope.
I have seen people squeezed into quite small workspaces, but they are (a) quite happy for various reasons (b) have organised themselves to make efficient and effective use of space, and (c) safety is not compromised.
The WP space standards effectively work out to a floor area of about a large L-desk and cabinet squared off to allow chair and a bit of wiggle room. This is with the margins for flow and exits etc. If you fill that space with stuff, it will look crowded even though technically it isn't. It was all about being able to breathe in the old Factory Act days - you shared your space with a very large loom.
Lots of public sector workplaces are crammed, because no-one has the nous to say 'stop what you're doing and FGS throw stuff away / tidy up'. It doesn't seem like part of anyone's job. Sometimes there is no easy way to actually dispose of old furniture or equipment - no process, everything needs a form to be filled in etc etc.
Key question - is it safe?
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