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michaelt  
#1 Posted : 28 January 2019 06:21:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
michaelt

Fingerless gloves are considerably more expensive than the equivilant full fingered gloves. Is it considered acceptable to modify (cut off the tips) off gloves?

As I see it I have three options:

1. Issue gloves for engineers to cut off themselves (issuing instructions)

2. Cut them off before issue. To ensure consistancy.

3. Buy the proper fingerless gloves.

Also I am trying to introduce traffigloves (or their equivilant) and cannot find fingerless amber (4343) gloves anywhere.

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 28 January 2019 08:44:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

In modifying the gloves yourself they are no longer as designed or tested by the manufacturer.

HASAW Section 8: No person shall intentionally or recklessly interfere with or misuse anything provided in the interests of health, safety or welfare in pursuance of any of the relevant statutory provisions.

Of courrse under the PPE directive EU 2016/425 you could as "supplier" have these adjusted items type tested but it is far cheaper to buy the right equipment for the task.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/01/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/01/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 28 January 2019 08:44:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

In modifying the gloves yourself they are no longer as designed or tested by the manufacturer.

HASAW Section 8: No person shall intentionally or recklessly interfere with or misuse anything provided in the interests of health, safety or welfare in pursuance of any of the relevant statutory provisions.

Of courrse under the PPE directive EU 2016/425 you could as "supplier" have these adjusted items type tested but it is far cheaper to buy the right equipment for the task.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/01/2019(UTC), A Kurdziel on 28/01/2019(UTC)
chris.packham  
#4 Posted : 28 January 2019 10:22:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I would question the interpretation given in the previous posting. My point is that the item will have been modified before being provided as protection and thus would not strictly infringe on the requirement in the HASAW. Otherwise any adaption, for example of a proprietary LEV system to make it work more effectively would be a contravention of the Act, not, I am sure, what those who wrote it would have intended.

Chris

Dave5705  
#5 Posted : 28 January 2019 11:58:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

Please excuse but I'm curious. Under what circumstances would you need anti-cut hands but not anti-cut fingers?

thanks 1 user thanked Dave5705 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/01/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 28 January 2019 12:29:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The majority of "fingerless" protective gloves are not wholly fingerless - instead they have two or three finger tips exposed https://www.arco.co.uk/products/14U1300?s=1 https://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-performance-3-finger-framer-gloves-grey-large/41324 Normally used by those handling sheet type materials (glass or metal) where the cut protection is intended for the palm

Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 28 January 2019 12:29:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The majority of "fingerless" protective gloves are not wholly fingerless - instead they have two or three finger tips exposed https://www.arco.co.uk/products/14U1300?s=1 https://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-performance-3-finger-framer-gloves-grey-large/41324 Normally used by those handling sheet type materials (glass or metal) where the cut protection is intended for the palm

johnmurray  
#8 Posted : 28 January 2019 12:43:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
johnmurray

A personal friend of mine has just has surgery to repair a cut tendon on one of her fingers....cut by sheet metal while wearing approved fingerless gloves....just saying.

Off work for 2 months, told not to drive for 6 weeks.

thanks 1 user thanked johnmurray for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 28/01/2019(UTC)
chris.packham  
#9 Posted : 28 January 2019 13:52:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Firstly, PPE, such as gloves, is always a last resort. Of course, ideal would be for them to use gloves with complete fingers, but what is this does not allow adequate dexterity. I have encountered system where this would raise a more significant risk of damage than wearing fingerless gloves. Given the phrase 'reasonably practicable' we often need to strike a balance when faced with two contradictory risk situations.

Unfortunately the initial posting did not indicate the reason why fingerless gloves were being sought. Without this information including the nature of the hazard, any history of damage to hands, etc.,  one can only respond in a general context. The risk assessment for the particular task will determine whether fingerless gloves proved an acceptable level of control. Perhaps thin Dyneema gloves with a thin PU coating on the palm might provide a satisfactory answer. From here impossible to say.

Roundtuit  
#10 Posted : 28 January 2019 13:53:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Two types of fingerless permitted in our business:

As thermal comfort for external workers

As a vibration liner with powered hand tools in conjucntion with over gloves

All other assessments identify chemical, abrasion or cut issues necessitating full hand / forearm protection.

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 28 January 2019 13:53:38(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Two types of fingerless permitted in our business:

As thermal comfort for external workers

As a vibration liner with powered hand tools in conjucntion with over gloves

All other assessments identify chemical, abrasion or cut issues necessitating full hand / forearm protection.

Dave5705  
#12 Posted : 28 January 2019 14:42:42(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Dave5705

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Two types of fingerless permitted in our business:

As thermal comfort for external workers

As a vibration liner with powered hand tools in conjucntion with over gloves

All other assessments identify chemical, abrasion or cut issues necessitating full hand / forearm protection.

Yes, that makes sense to me, I can see the benefit for thermal and vibration, but I thought these 'amber' gloves were for cut resistance, that's why I queried it. Sorry, My mistake.

Just out of interest, what do you cut 'cut' resistant gloves with? (sorry)

hilary  
#13 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:37:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
hilary

The Safety Supply Company does orange Traffi Gloves at £5.95 a pair. 

chris42  
#14 Posted : 31 January 2019 13:32:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

The question seems to be is it ok to cut the fingers off themselves, so the question isn’t if it is the right glove or not, they have made that determination.

I’m not sure I would want to be responsible for altering anything provided for protection especially PPE. On a practical note, gloves are often made of a woven material which could fray if cut. The fraying could lead to loops of thread material getting caught on whatever is being handled and as such adding another risk.

If of course you are still interested in our input.

In a previous employment we used to send engineers to construction sites who had a 100% policy for the wearing of gloves, which made it difficult to use some tf the equipment, so fingerless gloves were on occasion adopted. Therefore, fingerless may have nothing to do with cut resistance in this case, we don’t know.

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 31/01/2019(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#15 Posted : 31 January 2019 20:12:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Not only the weave unravelling - if you cut a leather glove you also go through the stitching which holds the components together allowing over time for the panels to separate.

Roundtuit  
#16 Posted : 31 January 2019 20:12:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Not only the weave unravelling - if you cut a leather glove you also go through the stitching which holds the components together allowing over time for the panels to separate.

GrahamEmerton@hotmail.com  
#17 Posted : 12 April 2024 11:34:50(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
GrahamEmerton@hotmail.com

I was interested to read this post on the forum.

Where i work operatives use a hot welding machine with a hot iron wedge as part of the equipment for fixing together two peices of PVC material. Initialy i was able to source some suitable heat resistant gloves with fingerless tips to ensure the operative could maintain dextrerity and grip to be able to move and manipulate the matieral on the machine, however these gloves became obsolete so instead purchased a different type heat resistant glove but with full finger covering and silcone dots up the inside of the fingers and palm to provide grip.

Upon issue of the new gloves they appeared to be of better quality material, however the supervisor advised the machine operatives they could cut off the finger tips, quickly i interjected and advised her in doing so would be a contravention of HASAW Section 8 and that although full fingered the operative would still be able to maintain dexterity and grip with greater increased protection than the previous gloves issued.

Just to be clear these gloves are to protect only against "accidental contact" with the hot wedge as the wedge is mostly protected with guarding.

Clearly PPE must always be the last form of protection and hierarchy of control must be in place and followed but where possible a substitute to an alternative superior product should be sourced where possible.

Elfin_Safety  
#18 Posted : 19 April 2024 10:21:43(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Elfin_Safety

Originally Posted by: chris.packham Go to Quoted Post

I would question the interpretation given in the previous posting. My point is that the item will have been modified before being provided as protection and thus would not strictly infringe on the requirement in the HASAW. Otherwise any adaption, for example of a proprietary LEV system to make it work more effectively would be a contravention of the Act, not, I am sure, what those who wrote it would have intended.

My approach to this has always been similar to Roundtuit's. If you modify LEV, you would be expected to carry out a thorough examination on recomissioning. For PPE, modifying it will negate it's conformance to relevant standards, which to me suggests the onus is then on the employer to test the modified version against those standards before issue?

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