Hi all, as a result of a risk assessment I've done on an existing piece of machinery (heat soak) I'm trying to establish why an emergency stop button or pull-cord has not been installed; as fas as I know, the machine in question was only installed a few years ago and therefore, should fall under the Supply of Machinery (Safety) Regulations 2008 in which it states that an ES should be installed unless it wouldn't lessen the risk or is a portable or hand-guided machinery. Well, as far as I'm concerned this doesn't apply and my biggest concern is that if someone is inside the heat soak and it gets closed and turned on (without someone knowing that someone is inside) there is a likelihood of a fatality. I'm trying to track down whether this machinery was provided and installed with a DoC (which confirms it meets all the ESHR) but no luck as of yet. Can anyone shed any light as to why one would not have been installed? If one should have, and we are going back a number of years, is there anything we can do to make the company in question rectify it at their cost, rather than ours? Thanks. PS - This installation was done several years before I came to the business.

If there is no manufacturer (CE) plate I would doubt you could find a Declaration of Conformity - Start by finding the manufacturers operating instructions Step 1 may clearly state check the soak is empty of personnel.

Don't agree about an Emergency Stop - the power and/or cycle will be on or off - installing such devices within the heated compartment for a trapped person to activate would likley result in component failures and their subsequently being by-passed.

Other than loading the only forseeable access would be maintenance - this is where you should have robust Lock-Out procedures to prevent the system being energised whilst persons are present.

If it is a latching door then perhaps the handle should have been of the type found on walk-in freezers or maybe they decided this generated a more significant hazard due to heat transmission to the external handle in which case a pull release stay could be fitted such that to release the catch the operator needs to be present at the opening.

You will likely find that contractually your purchase order merely stated 1 x machine without the detailed specification you now seek to derive supplier rectification

Never worked with such a machine but looking on the internet I’m guessing its some kind of industrial oven? As such I’m at a loss to know how an E stop button would work. I don’t think it possible to dissipate heat quickly in a situation as you have described so what would it do? The E Stops I am familure with usually bring things to a sudden stop either by cutting power or adding a mechanical break (or both). The situation you have described sound as if it need a “lock out” system rather than an E Stop, where by the person entering the soak can lock the door so no one can close it behind them.

The E-Stops would likely be associated with electrical drive components - feed conveyors and fans - rather than with the heating element.

Originally Posted by: Svick1984

Well, as far as I'm concerned this doesn't apply and my biggest concern is that if someone is inside the heat soak and it gets closed and turned on (without someone knowing that someone is inside) there is a likelihood of a fatality. 

An E-Stop would not stop this from happening as someone could just release the E-Stop and start up the machine. You need to be looking at a Lock Off system and an E-Stop is not and cannot be used as a form of lock off, unless its an E-Stop with a key. 

As others have mentioned there might be no need for an E-Stop if it won't serve any purpose.

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit

Don't agree about an Emergency Stop - the power and/or cycle will be on or off - installing such devices within the heated compartment for a trapped person to activate would likley result in component failures and their subsequently being by-passed

Thanks for the reply. Didn't quite follow the above; in terms of component failures, are you talking about the ES failing due to the heat it is exposed to? If so, I understand that; I would imagine it should have some form of pull-cord that connects to an ES on the oustide of the machine. Or have I misunderstood?

Originally Posted by: MrBrightside

Originally Posted by: Svick1984

Well, as far as I'm concerned this doesn't apply and my biggest concern is that if someone is inside the heat soak and it gets closed and turned on (without someone knowing that someone is inside) there is a likelihood of a fatality. 

An E-Stop would not stop this from happening as someone could just release the E-Stop and start up the machine. You need to be looking at a Lock Off system and an E-Stop is not and cannot be used as a form of lock off, unless its an E-Stop with a key. 

As others have mentioned there might be no need for an E-Stop if it won't serve any purpose.

Hi MrBrightside, thanks for the reply. If the E-Stop pull cord has been activated inside  (lets say hypothetically one was fitted inside so it could be used in case of a scenario where someone was trapped) and stopped the machine from running, I would make it part of the procedure that when it was activated, it would need to be investigated as to why (not simply as you, someone just releasing it and restarting it; however, again even if this did happen, the person inside could just keep reactivating it as many times as needed). Having said that, there are handles inside that could be used to open the doors, but I don't know if this would be adequate (if they are trapped between the trolleys/items inside and can't reach the door, that would pose another problem)? Or would you advise that a lock-off procedure be put in conjunction with it? Thanks.

I think this may be the case Paul is refering to https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11243569/Grandfather-burned-alive-trapped-in-industrial-oven.html

And i agree totaly with all the comments about an E Stop not being the approriate measure.

No e-stop needed, for the reasons as described above. The hazard will not be removed in terms of the heat - I've worked with very large industrial ovens that take days to cool down to a temperature that someone could tolerate 

Think more along the lines of a confined space - it's about getting out (escape), and the prevention of becoming trapped.