We are an engineering consultancy - normal place of work for all the employees is an office.  We have lots of drivers of grey fleet doing occasional driving to meetings, we have process for approval of driver and vehicle and so on.

However, it is proposed that we run a 'conference' for our sponsored students and apprentices for a week this summer.  This will involve the relevant people traveling to some location (we have offices scattered from Glasgow to Kent) and some site visits in a minibus.  The minibus will be driven by one of our employees accompanying the students / apprentices.

Looking through the (somewhat convoluted) guidance it seems to me that the driver of this minibus is going to have to comply with EU driving hours and breaks rules (i.e. at least 45 minutes break after no more than 4.5 hours driving).  The minibus will need to have tachograph fitted and we'll need to keep the tachograph records.

Is that right?

The hours limit is not a problem - I don't anticipate we'll have that much driving anyway - but I haven't ever hired a minibus, so I don't know if they all come with tachograph or if this is something we'll need to worry about.

Speak to the company hiring the minibus. They will have all the relevant info about driving hours, tacho requirements etc. If you can't fulfill the criteria why not speak to a local bus/taxi firm and see if they can help? That way you give the problem of tacho requirements and rest periods to someone else.

The starting point is to look at the size of the minibus - how many passengers plus driver.  if you decide you need tacho then that also leads to Operator Licence, D1 driving licence etc etc etc (Oh yes and then re-visit the insurance).    Just a quick thought, if your employee drives under tacho for 1 day, then they have to comply with the regs for daily, weekly rest that form around that single day as well  If you are asking questions about tachos (And it may be under domestic rather than EU rules), then you may find it easier, less hassle and actually cheaper to hire in a minibus with driver.   For tacho records have a read of - https://www.gov.uk/drivers-hours/passenger-carrying-vehicles

For O Licence - https://www.gov.uk/psv-operator-licences.  

Originally Posted by: achrn

Originally Posted by: AcornsConsult

if you decide you need tacho then that also leads to Operator Licence, D1 driving licence etc etc

Can you elaborate on that - I don't find that requirement anywhere.

We want one of our employees to drive a minibus we hire containing some of our employees to site(s) on one day, and maybe to different site(s) on a second day.  None of the passengers are paying for this journey.  No client is paying us to take these people to these sites or for teh activities of teh individuals when they are on teh sites.  This is part of the training / professional development of the individuals.

Would we really need a PSV Operator Licence?

I don't think you would, I used to drive a 17 seater providing a free service to get employees to and from work. The vehicle was owned by my employer. At the time it was perfectly legal for me to drive it on my normal car licence. We also used it for social events but didn't charge a fare.

It seems like the law has changed on Tachographs but I can't see that the law has chaged in this area? The guidance is a little vague though, the examples for exemptions are non-profit organisations. The scenario of taking employees for a work event isn't specifically mentioned although it wouldn't seem to fit the criteria for a PSV being required either........

Yes unfortunatly you will require a tachograph as the journey being made is for commercial purposes i.e. in conection with your business, there is a posibility that the driver may also require a driver cpc see link below

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/driver-cpc-exemptions-examples#who-needs-to-have-driver-cpc 

I would suggest that if you have a driver with a tachograph card then you use them provided they have the license to drive the mini bus being hired.