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an issue came up in training yesterday and want some guidance on it for the students but its out of my remit really. Basically the learners are all "self employed" subbies but ALL their work comes from 1 company / person. Am I right in thinking that this means that they are indirectly employed by that company, entitled to holiday pay and need PPE provided or paid for? I'm sure I've read somewhere before that if more than X % of your work comes from one source, even though you're self employed, they are responsible?
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 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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There is no single legal definition of self-employed. it is quite possible for someone to be classed as self-employed for tax purposes but an employee as far as H&S in concerned
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Look up Pimlico Plumbing v Smith but there are varying degrees of complication in all these types of situation.
I have always used the Right of substitution to settle these types of issue where encountered.
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thanks, their concern was that the company has recently been taken over and wanted to know if their 2+ years of working there as "self employed" meant that they could be binned off without issue. I've recommended speaking to ACAS to see their take on it,
I come across this from time to time and it seems an easy way for contractors to get away with "labour only" and have no input on their H&S beyond the minimum.
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PPE should be supplied by the "company / person" hiring their services, with corporate logo, free charge. Self-employed tend to be on an Ltd co or CIS (Construction Industry Scheme) type basis which does not include holiday pay. Self-employed Umbrella co/PAYE simply have the holiday pay deducted at source, returned to them minus tax at the end of their contract/annually. So for self-employed, holiday pay is considered to be part of your daily/hourly rate.
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Originally Posted by: jmaclaughlin 
So for self-employed, holiday pay is considered to be part of your daily/hourly rate.
even if their source of work is 1 company?
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Originally Posted by: craigroberts76 Originally Posted by: jmaclaughlin
So for self-employed, holiday pay is considered to be part of your daily/hourly rate.
even if their source of work is 1 company? Source of work is not the factor, as self-employed are a resource usually purchased from an agency as opposed to an employee (unless you have a contract). Being self-employed but only working for one company means you fall inside the IR35 (as pointed out by A Kurdziel which apart from tax liability means you have to pay class 4 NICs (9% over 8k profit pa) as opposed to class 2 NICs (Approx £150 pa).
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Rank: New forum user
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This is what HSE says about PPE
"An employer cannot ask for money from an employee for PPE, whether it is returnable or not. This includes agency workers, if they are legally regarded as your employees. If employment has been terminated and the employee keeps the PPE without the employer’s permission, then, as long as it has been made clear in the contract of employment, the employer may be able to deduct the cost of the replacement from any wages owed."
Hope this helps with the PPE bit.
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