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Gregory40320  
#1 Posted : 18 March 2016 20:46:09(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gregory40320
One to ponder over the weekend. Does anyone know of any fire rating tests carried out on uPVC double glazed units and doors? This is for uPVC units being used within a building as an office wall and entrance door. The office runs along an internal fire escape route and should be of 30 minute fire resistant construction. The glass meets BS6206 if that bears any relevance? If this does not meet the 30 minute standard the client will have to have it removed and replaced at significant cost. Looking forward to your responses people. Have a great weekend.
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mssy  
#2 Posted : 19 March 2016 16:00:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
mssy
Firstly, you need to ensure that the wall in question does need 30min fire resistance. Not all fire escape routes have this requirement. If the route needs to be 30min FR, the walls, glazing and doors leading onto the corridor will need to be fire resisting, and the industry standard of BS476 Parts 20 and 22 will usually achieve compliance. The plastics and window industry are very sensitive to the issue of fire safety and uPVC glazing, and understandably. Fire deaths and fire spread have often been reported in the media to be attributable to uPVC window systems when in reality that was not the case. In response the industry have a lots on info on the web stating uPVC wont begin or continue burning without a heat source, and other safety claims. http://www.pauljervis.ne...0Windows%20Ver%201.2.pdf However, this is not the same as standard uPVC units being suitable FR to be considered to protect a 30 mins escape route. Some are available. I have never seen one, but this site claims such a product: https://www.rehau.com/gb...ndows/fire-rated-windows Before going to the expense of removal of the windows, you need to be certain that a 30 min FR corridor is required and if so, consider whether other more cost effective measures could be used. This may include new escape route(s)/final exit(s), increasing the coverage of the AFD to give earlier warning of fire, or perhaps a limited water mist system to provide the required escape route protection? Good luck
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Gregory40320  
#3 Posted : 06 April 2016 20:10:40(UTC)
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Gregory40320
Thanks for the response mssy. A strange one I know. Thanks for taking the time. The client is now going to cover with fire boarding to ensure compliance. Regards Vic
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ConcettaParsons  
#4 Posted : 20 September 2016 07:37:43(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
ConcettaParsons
I don't have much experience with UPVC windows. But I came across an online article about UPVC windows http://northtechwindows....0/what-are-upvc-windows/ and came to know that it is weather resistant and energy resistant. Also I've heard that it will not cause, support or enhance the development of fire.
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firesafety101  
#5 Posted : 22 September 2016 07:46:37(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101
I recently took some advice fom the local Fire Safety Officer as I was fire risk assessing a HMO (block of purpose built flats) and was told in no uncertain terms not to allow UPVC front doors. That was good enough for me.
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Simon Heesom  
#6 Posted : 26 September 2016 14:43:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Simon Heesom
you coud also talk to building control as there may be local regulations that preclude the use of UPVC in such circumstances. similar to firesafety101 comments even in low rise flats their not allowed. Then revisit the 30 min requirement, after all the 'slam shuts' have been explored.
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cgs  
#7 Posted : 29 February 2020 23:18:37(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
cgs

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I'm a double glazing installer and have been asked to fit a customer supplied internal composite door. It needs to be to FD30 internal fire door spec but nowhere does the manufacturer state that it's fit for this purpose. I've queried it with them and all they'll say is that it's BS476 Part 22 compliant, which I understand relates to fire resistance. Does this mean it's manufactured to the spec we require?
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Messey  
#8 Posted : 01 March 2020 00:49:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

Be very careful here. Installing a fire door isnt the same as buying a coat and trying to determine via the affixed label whether it's shower proof or water proof, there a lot more to it than that

If in England or Wales, Article 5(4) of the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order applies and it makes YOU liable if you get anything wrong. You must be a 'competent person'. Other parts of the UK have different legislation, but it all says the same.

Competence means: A person is to be regarded as competent for the purposes of this article where he has sufficient training and experience or knowledge and other qualities to enable him properly to assist in undertaking the preventive and protective measures.

With the greatest respect, the fitting of fire doors is a specialism and not every carpenter or window fitter will meet the criteria for a comepetent person as outlined above. Just in the same way, not all competent plumbers are competent to play with gas pipes.

Some things worry me:

The customer is supplying the door? That's OK as long as the door, it's frame, the door hardware (latches and hinges), door closer , signage and glazing (if any) are accompanied with relevant certification. An email or verbal assurance that the list above meets relevant standards - including BS 476-22 - is not enough. You will need to know about fixing the frame to the wall and fire stopping - filling holes with kilos of pink foam may not be acceptable or legal

Who said it has to be a FD30 fire door? Are you sure it doesnt need to be a FD30S (ie. with smoke seals)? 

This Monday, the much delayed Grenfell Inquiry re starts and you will see the sort of scrutinity that is applied after every fire by the Police, Fire Service, or if a fatal fire: the Coroner.

For goodness sake unless you are certain you are competent, walk away and save yourself lots of grief. If, despite asking the rather basic fire safety  question on this site, you believe you are competent, and you intend taking on this job, check your insurance policy and good luck

CGS: I must stress this is not a personal or professional attack on you. Its giving you a heads up that you MAY be putting yourself at risk for a one off smallish job IF you are not competent.  Or take a punt, but (in my best Clint Eastwood voice) you have to ask yourself, do you feel lucky?
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firesafety101  
#9 Posted : 01 March 2020 09:23:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Hi CGS,

I agree with Messey, but I would like to know where the door will be installed.  You say Internal, is it a front door to a flat in multi occupancy, or inside a house/flat or something else.

I once worked with a joiner who used his own money to attend training to attain competency in fitting fire doors.  Almost £2000.

He told me all about what he learned and as Messey says there is more to it that just fitting the door.

When I am involved in refurbs I always ask the supplier for the fire rating certificate to ensure it is the right door according to requirements of the project.  This is required by the Principal Designer.  Your door sounds like a 'one off'.

If it is a glazed door the glass must have the standard 'etched' into the glass.

The fire and rescue service will assist if you contact the local fire safety department.  They will tell you what they would accept.

Good luck.
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