Has anybody found any sort of advice about what to do with working vulnerable people and Corvid 19? All of the advice from PHE etc is based on the assumption that “vulnerable people” are house bound individuals etc.

But I have been approached by individuals at work,  who have underlying health conditions which mean that they have an increased   risk from this virus eg, COPD and respiratory issues.

What advice are people giving them?

We are the Civil Service so plans are reasonable although they still don't address vulnerable people outright because the term "vulnerable" isn't defined but guidance is changing daily and it looks like we are due an update on vulnerable people in the next couple of days.  On my site we have 6 people at higher risk, me - leukaemia = dud immune system, I nearly died of normal flu in January so I am really worried, 2 undergoing chemotherapy / radiotherapy,   1 with COPD, 1 with a history of pneumonia and 1 with a heart condition.  My boss is leaving it up to us when we decide we need to isolate / social distance for our own safety our HR sickness recording system is being updated to take account of the virus.  3 of us could work from home and we are trying to get laptops

Our update is in - vulnerable people isolating for their own protection - so long as they are isolating on the advice of a GP or hospital consultant then their absence will be written down as authorised, it won't trigger half pay and no pay rules for sickness absence (bear in mind we might be isolating for a long time) advice is to try to provide them with a means of working from home if this is feasible.

We have advised all people who consider themselves to be vulnerable that they can work from home if at all possible. We have Citrix as a charity-wide desktop system, so its not a problem and our IT people say we have the bandwidth to cope.

Our problems start when we look at our front-line people, who can't work from home. We already have good sick-pay arrangements, so its not really a problem as far as that goes, but it still means that people will run the chance of being exposed. A lot of the front-line wouldn't work from home anyway, unless they were self-isolating through illness, and would rather drop in the service of the mission than reduce support to the vulnerable.

We have three(!) meetings a day to deal with all the ramifications, and two response teams, so we are being quite serious about it.

Today I wrote guidance on brass bands and Covid-19...

John

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel

Things have moved on and we are sending as many people to work from home as possible, with the vulnerable ones as a priority. Though we have been warned by our IT people that in some parts of the country all these extra homeworkers are slowing broadband.

Thank for your suggestions but we are living in rapidly changing times so what makes sense on Monday might be completely useless by Wednesday.

PS I have never done a risk assessment   for a brass band; Gardener’s Question Time: YES; parakeets: YES but never a brass band. I am jealous!

Do a stint in the third sector you get requets to risk assess all sorts, no holds barred! :) 

Originally Posted by: Invictus

What are you on?

Reality? By unscathed I mean without at least one serious case. Today I advised all our vunerable people go home. I cannot force them to leave as it is against their contractual rights and the government hasn't made it illegal for them to stay at work(it is a similar problem to telling people not to go to pubs, clubs etc vs telling the clubs, pubs etc to close). We have limited access to alcohol gel because of the panic buying, so I am rationing it to those most vulnerable. I have stepped up the cleaning rota, but we work in a factory in which the people share tools (such as chopsaws, grinders etc) We just would not be able to clean the equipment fast enough.

We have cancelled all meetings, no visitors are allowed on site unless it is vital to the business. We are trying our best. But when all is said and done, only governmental decisions can change the outcome of this. At the begining of the outbreak I said that we were over-reacting, I now think I was wrong. I try to adjust my opinions based on evidence.

We have very few cases in our area, but I have no doubt that at some point it will sweep through, mainly because of the poverty situation. People just cannot afford to take time off work. When this happens we will get cases within our workforce. It will then probably spread to these vulnerable people. This is even more likely when you take into account the we have several generations of families employed. We will be lucky if they all come out of the other side of the viral infection without complications, based on the statistics we have from the pandemic so far.

A pessimist is seldom dissappointed.

I took it as insulin dependant, but you are right it is all just guess work. Asthmatics are another group (which I am included). Around 1 in 12 of the adult population has asthma, are we really ready for that many people to dissappear from society for 3 months?

The definition of "vulnerable" that I heard was "anyone who would normally be recommended to have a flu jab".

I don't have an exact source for this (although I can say I have only been following reputable news outlets so I think it has some credibility).

Yet those on a course of immuno-suppresants do not get offered a flu jab - Mrs R gets hers due to asthma

Thank you very interesting. I’m diabetic type 2, and get offered the annual flu jab ( not instructed as such), so I guess that means I’m in the Vulnerable group, though I will be spending most of my time shut up in my office on my own anyway (as normal, when at base), but I could do some of my work from home. This will affect quite a lot of people.

I thought I would copy and add it to this post as I think it is useful (I think this is the first time I have actually thought that of a gov web site, I must be feeling ill).

Chris

advising those who are at increased risk of severe illness from coronavirus (COVID-19) to be particularly stringent in following social distancing measures.

This group includes those who are:

• aged 70 or older (regardless of medical conditions)
• under 70 with an underlying health condition listed below (ie anyone instructed to get a flu jab as an adult each year on medical grounds):
  • chronic (long-term) respiratory diseases, such as asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), emphysema or bronchitis
  • chronic heart disease, such as heart failure
  • chronic kidney disease
  • chronic liver disease, such as hepatitis
  • chronic neurological conditions, such as Parkinson’s disease, motor neurone disease, multiple sclerosis (MS), a learning disability or cerebral palsy
  • diabetes
  • problems with your spleen – for example, sickle cell disease or if you have had your spleen removed
  • a weakened immune system as the result of conditions such as HIV and AIDS, or medicines such as steroid tablets or chemotherapy
  • being seriously overweight (a body mass index (BMI) of 40 or above)
• those who are pregnant

Note: there are some clinical conditions which put people at even higher risk of severe illness from COVID-19. If you are in this category, next week the NHS in England will directly contact you with advice the more stringent measures you should take in order to keep yourself and others safe. For now, you should rigorously follow the social distancing advice in full, outlined below.

People falling into this group are those who may be at particular risk due to complex health problems such as:

• people who have received an organ transplant and remain on ongoing immunosuppression medication
• people with cancer who are undergoing active chemotherapy or radiotherapy
• people with cancers of the blood or bone marrow such as leukaemia who are at any stage of treatment
• people with severe chest conditions such as cystic fibrosis or severe asthma (requiring hospital admissions or courses of steroid tablets)
• people with severe diseases of body systems, such as severe kidney disease (dialysis)

Originally Posted by: Kate

The definition of "vulnerable" that I heard was "anyone who would normally be recommended to have a flu jab".

I don't have an exact source for this (although I can say I have only been following reputable news outlets so I think it has some credibility).

Under that definition, I'd be classed as vulnerable as I had a minor stroke 4 yrs ago but I'm offered a flu jab every year.

In my head I wouldn't class me as vulnerable. But then there are people with a better education and qualifications than me who say I am.

I won't be self isolating until I'm forced to either by govt advice or I show symptoms. As I'm self employed, I simply can't afford to take more than a couple of weeks off work before I feel the pinch. 

“Are we all meant to mystically know what is considered a vulnerable trait?”: Of course you are the Health and Safety person and should  be able to predict  the future, read minds and know about everything that nobody else in the company can be bothered to look up!

Of course we can only do what we can do.

I wish that people had taken basic continuity planning seriously in the past and that they had bothered to run serious scenarios eg what happens if we have to close the whole site down and everybody works from home. You expect there to be a list of who has a laptop and what their contact details are and for this list to be readily accessible?

No, we spent a morning putting these lists together. They are of course wrong as we did it in rush and had no way to check them out and some people have more than one email and  some seem to have loads of company mobile phones but I don’t care it’s the best we can do at short notice.

All the vulnerable workers have gone home. We decided that anybody who had something which lead to them being immunocompromised or if they had a history of respiratory disease (eg asthma) or   COPD. We also allowed some malingerers to go home as this is all being done in rush and am not that worried if someone pretends to be vulnerable. As long as the genuine cases are safe that is all that counts. There is only so much energy available.

Similarly, I am jot responsible for who may get infected on public transport. My staff on my site yes, but in the big bad world, that’s for Boris Johnson and his muppets to sort out. If he wanted the job so badly, he better step up and take charge.

As has been pointed out, 70 years old should be thought of as a guide. You don’t suddenly go into a terminal decline on your 70th birthday. I know 70 year olds who are super fit and whose immune system is probably better than the average horse’s.

The issue of who gets paid is really serious. Many people only get paid if they work and even SSP does not really cut it.

The real issue is how long is this all going to last?