Hi all

We are debating the term "essential" at work e.g. if the building is closed to users and government's advice says only go to work if absolutley necessary, e.g. what does that mean for water testing for legionella? Do we go in weekly to flush or carry out a full risk assessment regime when we reopen?

How are others defining/approaching this?

Sean

In property management empty buildings are typically visited every two weeks to check for damage/break-in, read the meters and where appropriate run the water systems.

Edited by user 24 March 2020 12:58:35(UTC)  | Reason: Typo

We're not, the government are. If you're not on the list, carry on. 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874732/230320_-_Revised_guidance_note_-_finalVF.pdf

The current new restrictions do only affect businesses on that list, however every responsible business will be doing what it reasonably can to protect its staff, its visitors and the public.  Some offices are closed, many people are working from home (in line with government guidance that employers should facilitate this), different working methods are being adopted, etc.  The extent of this will depend on the nature of the business, office based activities obviously being very different from manufacturing.

The question is, which things are important enough for someone to come in and do - or to do at all.  My employer has, in my view correctly for our particular circumstances, approached this by identifying a handful of staff who will still come in to do hands-on work, while everyone else has to stay away and apply for permission if there is a job they think merits them coming in, in which case social distancing rules apply.  Whether a job is important enough to come in for is going to depend on the business case for doing it including the risk of not doing it. I ain't coming in to test the fire alarm given the very low fire risk in our current circumstances (in some premises this assessment would of course be different).

In the particular case of legionella flushing, well I would say it would depend on the legionella risk in your system.  Is it to building occupants only or also to the general public, for example.  I would also consider whether cooling towers can be shut down, water outlets taken out of use etc to reduce the immediate risk with a plan to clean the system out thoroughly once needed again.

In other words, boringly, I am saying it is down to risk assessment and it will be different for different businesses.  But I agree it would be useful for those of us in similar situations to compare notes.

The FIA has obtained some useful guidance from the Home Office on what constitutes 'essential' work and 'key workers' see:

https://www.fia.uk.com/news/fia-assured-by-home-office-that-personnel-responding-to-failures-of-fire-protection-systems-are-definitely-designated-as-key-workers.html

This is a good forums question :)  I suppose will somebody die or could be injured or can you prevent suffering an pain or place somebody into care or look after somebodies welfare or conduct a funeral or give solace if you don't do your work, provide basic maintenance, police, fire, ambulance, NHS, Coroners teams.  

The armed forces both Regular and Territorials will be travelling too. 

So all the above Teir one and everyone below Tier two. 

Keyholders for buildings, may need to be called in, I hope they have spare keys, the scum that are the criminal element of society must view the lock down as an extended Christmas period. 

Legionella maybe reduced by draining the pipework, but that will take time, it might be easier for temporary once a week visits, just to keep things ticking over including checking fire alarm systems and bank vaults, so 1 or 2 maintenance people.   

Chemical production, power stations, fuel services, road emergency patrols (RAC), Social Services, Waste and Recycling teams, train drivers, bus drivers, truck drivers, van drivers, logistics teams.  

Everyone else, if your not on the list, close it down and go home.

I've seen some news today, Construction should stop dead, basic duty of care.  

Edited by user 24 March 2020 22:55:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I am so angry about the fact that work is being allowed to continue in one of the most likely breeding environments for Coronavirus that there could be.

The construction sites that I visited last week (before the latest advice) varied so much in cleanliness and hygiene, and even information for workers. They were likely breeding grounds for infection – virtually all over. Even those trying to do regular cleans and provide sanitisers couldn’t do it everywhere. Construction is almost the most likely environment for spreading this disease, as its hygiene and welfare standards are every time - yes every time - below those of employers in a fixed workplace. Shared toilets, locker-rooms, offices, workspaces, security turnstiles, signing in books, rest rooms, food-preparation surfaces - and not cleaned like you’d have in a restaurant, cafe or pub. (Separation isn't possible when its a 2 person job! such as lifting a lintel or passing up scaffolding to an upper lift).

It’s also almost a perfect mixing ground. New contractors come each day and go back to their families – and maybe go to a different site tomorrow. It’s sheer madness for construction sites to be kept open in the current climate

- Bill Sowerbutts, Fellow of the Royal Society of Public Health, CMIOSH - Health and Safety Advisor in Construction for 25 years.

There is lots of contradictory advice out with one minster saying that construction should stop and another saying it can continue if social distancing is being practiced. One says those who can’t work from home should go to work to keep the country going and others saying only essential work should carry on but with no clarity as to what is essential work.

Business would like to carry on and would be loath to completely shut down. They would like to keep a skeleton crew on at least to keep the buildings etc safe and secure. But is that essential as per government requirements?

On Thursday the police will be given powers to stop non-essential travel etc. Have they been told what they should be doing or will it be down to their “discretion”. I can imagine people being arrested just for trying to do their job!

To me,  fulfilling customer orders is a valid reason to continue work where this hasn't been expressly prohibited and can be done safely (with distancing and hygiene measures etc).

The private interest is often in the public interest - if businesses go under their employees lose their jobs and everyone suffers.

Thanks all, that has been really helpful in deciding our policy and practice. 

Risks assesed against "so far as is reasonably practicable" and our action plan is in place.

I worked in the emergency servcies for over 30 years and like @Messey this far outsrtips any of the critical incidents I had to deal with.

​​​​​​​Anyway, keep on keeping on and see you all on the other side.

Good forum posting.  I'm on a facebook group called lever pullers, which is all construction trade people mostly connected with the crane industry and machines that have levers, like excavators and mewps and what not. 

It's been quite heated in the debates, basically, the self employed and  that's about 5 million people, are split into 2 camps, those that are at home and those that can't afford to go home. 

Hopefully, the Government will be giving new hope tomorrow with a package for the self employed, watch this space. 

Don't ask Donald.

Actually what has happened with the staff from his Scottish golfing and other UK interests?

Should HM Gov be funding the business interests of non-nationals particularly the leader of a party whose members have just been accused of insider trading on their national stock market exploiting information about Covid-19?