When is a fire door not a fire door - when its A jar

Seriously where is the supposed contamination coming from?

Healthy staff working to social distancing guidelines frequently washing hands do not contaminate door handles.

we have just purchased fire door retainers which keep the doors open but trigger if the alarm sounds, similar to the devices present in most hotels these days. Reducing the number of touch points on site is no bad thing in my opinion. 

Can the fire doors be opened with your feet (I mean, do they swing both ways and can they be pushed open with your feet without damaging them)?

As always it’s down to the risk assessment. As Roundtuit says the risk of infection due to handling doors is minimal (but not non-existent). The risk posed by fire is spreading is probably higher. How likely is it for a fire to occur in the area behind the doors?  How likely is it to spread? Will someone hang around to close the doors or will they just evacuate leaving the doors open? What will happen at the end of the shift when everybody goes homes? Can you guarantee that the doors will be shut once everybody has left?

I am a very pragmatic practioner and would fight to the death anyone who calls me a 'jobsworth'(!!), but I really worry about risk assessments relating to the opening of fire doors being carried out by those not competent to do so.

To reduce the risk of contamination, its often necessary to clean the door handles more often. Simple. Would you wedge open or remove toilet cubicle doors? Why not, as I bet they are properly filthy as often you cant wash your hands until after you exit

Dorgards are not always suitable in all cases and while I accept the appetite for virus transmission in medical facilities is (and must remain) very low, it must be remembered that hospitals and care homes contain people who are very vulnerable from fire - especially those with respiritory conditions

In short, fire doors are rarely installed for fun, so be very very careful people

Going "old skool" true fire doors typically have a blue circular symbol with white lettering along the lines of "Fire Door Keep Closed" - for those who have forgotten white on blue is a mandatory (not optional) instruction.

Hating information overload if my specialist Fire Risk Assessor identfies a door that is a "fire door" the symbol stays - as does the door in the frame.

If the designer or builder put in a door to fire standards which is not required then the symbol is removed and people are allowed to prop it open - but not with the nearest fire extinguisher!

I'm prepared to be shot down in flames, and every building / risk / operation is different, but in these unprecedented times we went through an exercise of identifying high contact doors, maglock door with a push button to open and a few fire doors in high activity corridors.

We've decided to deactivate the mag locks (not fire doors anyway) and keep certain doors open, also 3 fire doors in a corridor with lots of human traffic are allowed open during routine working hours, based on the fact that the area is populated with people who could see smell a fire, automatic fire detection, fire risk assessment score is low, sprinklers, security guards close the doors over at 5pm, staff have been breifed that this is only a short term measure and don't get used to it, also discussed with insurance.

If you are not afforded the luxury of above and have high risk place of work (sleeping - care homes hotels etc... ) theres no way I'd allow them left open for any period of time

I now await a volley tut tuts to appear

RVThompson raised an interesting question in another post also regarding propped "high contact" Fire Doors - "Do you also prop open toilet doors?"

As you have derived controls based upon a high contact premis what happened with your toilet doors? 

Originally Posted by: Mersey

I now await a volley tut tuts to appear

No 'tuts' from me as you have seen the actual premises and are much better placed than anyone to be able to of considered the appropriate measures.

My concern is that to remove a control measure (fire doors) without introducing any mitigating measures is difficult to justify.

For example, it is possible to allow a cleaner to prop open a hotel bedroom door while she or he is cleaning it as long as they are present. As soon as they pop down the corridor to get clean sheets, they must close the door. The mitigating control measure is the presence of the cleaner to raise the alam and close the door.

It seems by allowing fire doors to be removed or held open for many months with no alternative measure in place (other than crossing your fingers and hoping nothing happens), it is difficult to put a business case together to justify that. Think about the harsh questioning at the Grenfell Inquiry. Would your door propping plan survive that level of scrutiny??

Whereas when risk assessing the transmission of Covid-19 via fire door furniture, a clear and easy mitigating control measure is possible, that is the regular cleaning of the door handles and push plates. The frequency may need to be greater at high traffic areas and where vulnerable (Covid vulnerable) persons may be moving around.

This is a relatively easy measure to adopt which reduces the risk of illness whilst maintaining fire safety. Why do anything else????