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Milkyken  
#1 Posted : 30 June 2020 08:19:26(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Milkyken

Hi All,

A sports club which is privately owned by the members and with an elected committee is having some work done by volunteers. The work is electrical, bit of joinery, painting and new flooring.

In terms of CDM it’s construction work. The building was constructed 1930 so needs a R&D.

Some of the volunteers are trades people some not. No money changing hands.

Under CDM and in the spirit of things it’s a bit of a dilemma. Proving SKET , Insurance’s, possible PD, client responsibilities who is PC or does the club become single contractor and client so no need for PD.

Any thoughts welcome

Thanks in advance

Ken

Bigmac1  
#2 Posted : 30 June 2020 15:59:11(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Bigmac1

You need to be careful when using volunteers. The savings could be wiped out if there is an accident.

thanks 1 user thanked Bigmac1 for this useful post.
John D C on 01/07/2020(UTC)
aud  
#3 Posted : 30 June 2020 21:42:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

If the club is not an employer, (of even a cleaner) it is not 'at work' and has no duties under H&S legislation. Therefore no dilemma. CDM / HASAWA do not apply.

Even the CDM 'domestic client' provision in reality merely transfers to employers of the tradespeople.

However . . . there still exists a civil duty of care. To those working on the project and to occupants and users of the building ongoing. There may well be requirements from the insurer - in my experience these tend to try to treat private clubs as if they are subject to HASAWA - blue tape stuff. Plus work would be subject to building regulations and LA building control approval (which is concerned with the ongoing safety of the building) especially electrics, drains or structural. I don't know what 'some work' means.

My concern would be clarity. If no money is changing hands, there are no contracts. Therefore no comeback, no competency confirmation (ie Part P of building regs - electrics), possibly no co-ordination.

You don't need to fret about the administrative elements of appointments etc as CDM does not apply. But the principles and objectives of CDM can be used. Have someone (a team) in charge of project, a plan of who is to do what, when, to what standard, and how will it be done safely - these can still be implemented by a club, to demonstrate a reasonable standard of care.

I would be most wary about the electrical work (if intrusive that brings in the asbestos potential too). I would probably insist on formalising at least the higher risk work, therefore some payment - mate's rates obviously! I'm surprised a suitably qualified electrician has 'volunteered'. Or has s/he? Building control will be a good source of help. 

thanks 1 user thanked aud for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 01/07/2020(UTC)
Alfasev  
#4 Posted : 01 July 2020 10:25:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alfasev

I disagree a club would be classed as a business so CDM does apply. Reg 2 Interpretation “business” means a trade, business or other undertaking (whether for profit or not)”.

The club can be all the duty holders and you could use the HSE template for the CPP. I would concentrate on the practicalities like risk CCP, risk assessments, method statements, supervision, insurance etc.

Other H&S legislation can apply as shown by this case:-

https://www.shponline.co.uk/in-court/st-albans-fc-fined-after-volunteers-death-from-roof-fall/

There is guidencae on the HSE website:-

https://www.hse.gov.uk/entertainment/leisure/amateur-sports-club.htm

Edited by user 01 July 2020 10:44:40(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

aud  
#5 Posted : 01 July 2020 20:36:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
aud

Thankyou Alfasev for linking to the HSE guidance on sports clubs. You will see that it confirms what I wrote, 'Health and safety law does not generally apply to volunteers running a club with no employees, unless the club has responsibility for premises like a clubhouse or playing fields'.

The case you link to involved a large commercial club - an employer - with employees and using a volunteer. Obviously H&S law applies - s3 of HASAWA specifically. It is not a private club, so not comparable.

I am not condoning behaving with complete disregard to safety. The club members are well-advised to follow general principles of considering what the risks are, and take sensible precautions.  The suggestion of using the HSE guidance for the busy builder, with simple CPP is good, but there is no need for 'compliance' type stuff, if it is neither required nor helpful.

I reiterate the point that the club may find they are pushed to take specific action by their insurer. The common law duty of care applies regardless, which of course is where insurance comes in.

The HSE guidance refers to their own guide on village halls etc which is worth a look, as premises may prompt some H&S requirements. Gas or fire safety laws have 'dutyholders' who need not be employers.

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