Something not covid related for a change.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-53570487

Now as a parent I get the worry if this happened to your child. I know this site fairly well as at University in Bangor. Have even SUBA dived the plung pools  (got some strange looks from the hikers when we were carrying air tanks!

At the end of the day it’s a waterfall on a river on a mountainside on part of the Llanberis path up the mountain we call Snowden. A 9 mile path with lots of places you could fall! Is it just me or are people forgetting that the world is not a safe place? If we flattened or fenced every conceivable natural risk would anybody actually want to visit?

Sorry rant over - glad the littel girl is OK.

First step is to eliminate the hazard.

Two options here, we either get rid of the waterfall, or the parents don't take the child to the waterfall. I know which I would deem the better option.

The idea of fencing off a beauty spot, or erecting posts along the edge so that they can put life belts on them is obscene. Unfortunately humans still feel that we were "put" on this planet to exploit it as much as we like, it is our "God given right".

Seriously, don't take children to dangerous places, even if Jurassic Park has taught us that it is ok.

The article quotes a parent as saying “something must be done”. Whenever something like this happens someone somewhere says “something must be done” but nobody ever makes it what that “thing” is. We could ban people from travelling into anything remotely wild but do we really want to? So far there has not been any legal cases surrounding this and based on earlier cases the law accepts that his is one of those things where all you can expect is that people take extra care and parents in particular take care of their children.

I live in York and all along the riverside there are little memorials to the people who have drowned in the Ouse. In most cases they dived in for a challenge and the rest is simply a tragedy but the riverside walks are still open and the barriers alongside the river are not that significant and easily climbed over but people on the whole accept that there is risk near water.

Someone puts in barriers, said parents and others will then complain that 'the beauty has been ruined by bonkers elf and safety'.

How's about we permanently lock the blatantly stupid in their own homes (or preferably the old style asylums)?

No need for barriers and signs along canals, rivers, quarries, reservoirs, airports, runways, ports, harbours, bridges, roads, dual carriageways, motorways.....

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/m60-traffic-grinds-halt-pedestrian-18663463​​​​​​​

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit

No need for barriers and signs along canals, rivers, quarries, reservoirs, airports, runways, ports, harbours, bridges, roads, dual carriageways, motorways.....

Totaly agree!

Originally Posted by: chris42

What exactly could a sign message convey that a river and 100ft waterfall couldn’t?

 

Do you think the name confused them its says "water fall" they did not realise that "people fall" as well?

Sorry but its Friday!

With signs you also have to be careful of the langauge - not everyone can read and comprehened English text.

Even the ISO warning sign pictograms could be miss interpreted as instruction if you have not been educated as to the purpose of yellow triangle signs.

So, these parents expected that there would be warning signs on the waterfall? Streuth. What next - fall protection barriers on mountains, a permit system for walking along a canal, warning signs about not walking on a motorway? Why not spread this idiocy to the home - cut off power in case people burn themselves on hot pans, remove baths in case they drown, remove all doors in case they trap their fingers in them, put up protective barriers at the end of every driveway in case people walk into the road? I don't know about putting such people in an asylum; I think they have already taken it over.

BUT UK Motorways DO have signs saying NO PEDESTRIANS.

Just as well the pedestrian was wearing a face covering. Think about all the added hassle if he hadn't.

Originally Posted by: peter gotch

BUT UK Motorways DO have signs saying NO PEDESTRIANS.

Only on the vehicular entrances (slip road signage) not along their length where these numpties appear

True and I am not about to argue for a sign every X metres!

But Motorways are also designed with physical barriers to prevent accidental access. Might be only post and wire fences in rural locations, but it's still something that requires deliberate action to get past.

Yet we do not permit natural selection - instead the authorities choose to incovenience hundreds for hours for the sake of the one who climbs the fence either at the side of a motorway as a short-cut or the anti-suicide fencing over most major roundabouts.

When I did my first health and safety qualification, we had one lecturer whose favourite saying was 'people are not stupid, they're just trying to get the job done'. We all appreciated what he was saying then. However, as time has gone on, with the incidents I have seen and heard about, the only logical explanation I could find as to why some people did stupid things was that they were actually stupid. I am sure anyone working in hospital A&E departments would agree. The multitude of objects that people insert into their backsides is a case in point. A 'reasonable' person might ask why they did it, why did it seem a good idea, but nevertheless they did it. Inadvisable amounts of alcohol could explain some of these occurences, but not all. We are therefore left with the inevitable conclusion that some people are simply stupid.

I am sorry but if you really think that people are that stupid; ie they cannot learn, you shouldn’t really bother with H&S because it becomes utterly pointless. Most people I have come across generally want to do the right thing. What is holding them back is that they don’t know what the right thing is or the employer makes it difficult for them to actually do because they tend to load lots of unnecessary burden etc on what is usually as simple task. In addition when people talk about risk they often take into account factors which you would never include in the risk assessment. For example an operative might well balance the controls which they know should be applied with their own desire to get home early on a Friday.

We tend to fill people with horror stories of what goes wrong but in reality 90% of the time they get away with it. Just because you don’t clip in a lanyard does not guarantee that you will fall to your death. People balance those things out in their head at that moment in time. The point of risk assessment is really to get them to reflect on the bigger picture and to make them see that perhaps getting home a bit early is not worth the risk.  Reason’s Swiss cheese model is brilliant not because it explains how accidents happen but more importantly why they don’t always happen: essentially everything has to align up for the incident to occur.    

Originally Posted by: CptBeaky

Fair point and I consider myself suitably chatised. I think we are just using hyperbole. What I should say is that "some people have a lot less sense than you would think possible"

I understand that the German for common sense is "gesunder menschenverstand" which is literally 'healthy people's understanding', or something like it.  I think 'healthy sense' would have been a better phrase to adopt than 'common sense', since (as many people have observed) it often is not as common as you might hope.

Brian, thanks for the sharing.

Is hard to comments as I have yet to visit the place. If such incidents has been repeated for several times and is unlikely such "risks" deem to be common sense. What is common to you may not be common to someone as they may not have the "knowledge and experience". 

Hence, whether to put up safety railing or barricades will have to assess the situation case by case basis. I do not agree with "common sense", rather we have to inculcate "situation and safety awareness" to our kids and guide them along the way.