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SammyK  
#1 Posted : 02 October 2020 08:46:29(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

Good Morning,

Can anyone please answer the following? does the use of handheld thermometers come under any legislation? is it covered by anything does anyone know please? thank you

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 02 October 2020 08:58:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Legislation for what - Factories Act? If we are talking about Covid measures then the use of thermometers is not specified in legislation but is mentioned in Guidance.

It is apt they appear in guidance as a hand held infra-red scanner is only a guide.

Many note the limitations of such devices taking solely surface rather than core temperature.

They recognise there can be other causes for an elevated temperature which is probably not Covid related.

That many asymptomatics and exposed persons do not neceassrily have a high temperature.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
SammyK on 02/10/2020(UTC), SammyK on 02/10/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 02 October 2020 08:58:52(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Legislation for what - Factories Act? If we are talking about Covid measures then the use of thermometers is not specified in legislation but is mentioned in Guidance.

It is apt they appear in guidance as a hand held infra-red scanner is only a guide.

Many note the limitations of such devices taking solely surface rather than core temperature.

They recognise there can be other causes for an elevated temperature which is probably not Covid related.

That many asymptomatics and exposed persons do not neceassrily have a high temperature.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
SammyK on 02/10/2020(UTC), SammyK on 02/10/2020(UTC)
CptBeaky  
#4 Posted : 02 October 2020 09:08:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

I agree with Roundtuit, both on the legal side of it and the practical uses. As I have discussed before, we do use a held held themometer to check our staff, but it is mostly a placebo to help settle their concerns. They like to see actions being taken, and it helps remind them that this is still going on.

Often I get cold readings because people have recently been outside, or are sweating because they are doing something physical. Other times I get false positives because they have just swigged a hot coffee or are working next to a welding plate (250°C), thus heating their skin. (These people are isolated for a minute then tested again).

We remind our staff often that this is only one, quite poor, way of looking for one symptom of COVID-19. People can still have COVID-19 whilst not having a temperature, and may not have COVID-19 whilst having a raised temperature. It is a control, but a very poor one. It is like putting tape across a 2m drop.

thanks 3 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
Kate on 02/10/2020(UTC), chris.packham on 02/10/2020(UTC), flysafe on 05/10/2020(UTC)
SammyK  
#5 Posted : 02 October 2020 10:15:28(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

thank you both, it's appreciated. We don't use hand held theormometers to check for a temp due to the amount of case studies where it's an awful control measure. However, HQ in Europe have asked questions if there is any legislation that these fall under. I think they will be making it mandatory, as they are questioning why we aren't doing it.

Thank you

Kate  
#6 Posted : 02 October 2020 10:25:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Do they mean legislation that says you must (or must not) do it, or legislation about how to do it if you do?

Captcha - 5can

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 02 October 2020 11:09:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

There is no legal requirement to carry out this testing in the UK

If a person refuses to be tested then depending on the terms and conditions of the employment contract it might be acceptable to forbid them from your site but if you do apply this policy you would need to ensure that it is fair and just

If a person seems to be positive that is probably private personal data and has to be managed within the requirements of GDPR.

If it looks like a person is positive the employer should exclude them from the workplace and ask them to contact NHS track and trace. But the can’t require them to do that.

Your European HQ should realise that the rules are different across Europe and in some case within countries.   

HSSnail  
#8 Posted : 02 October 2020 12:21:01(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

have you read this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52940951

I assume (as others have) this is part of your covid system. Two many problems with it for me to be a viable control

chris42  
#9 Posted : 02 October 2020 13:27:34(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

so from that report if you want accuracy, you could be faced by some problems.

"Taking an accurate reading of core body temperature isn't easy. Although it can be measured on the forehead, in the mouth, the ear and the armpit, the most accurate way is to take a rectal reading."

I think you will have issues with HR related legislation, once you send people home without pay and it turns out they don't have it.

Chris

chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 02 October 2020 16:24:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

As temperature is not a reliable test perhaps we should consider an alternative - loss of taste and smell. Why not have a small selection of cups, say five, each with something with a distinctive, easily recognisable smell? Person asked to identify each of these. Failure would indicate the advisability of a proper swab test.

Perhaps initially run this concurrently with the temperature measurement and see what correlation you get!

John Murray  
#11 Posted : 04 October 2020 15:07:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

You could always insist on taking a persons temperature anally......it may raise some HR issues though.

thanks 4 users thanked John Murray for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 05/10/2020(UTC), Roundtuit on 05/10/2020(UTC), Connor35037 on 05/10/2020(UTC), toe on 20/10/2020(UTC)
Mark-W  
#12 Posted : 05 October 2020 08:42:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

1 of my clients does insist on temps being taken.

Each employee is issued a sheet on Mon morning. They record their own temp as they enter and record it on the sheet.

On Fri, they place the sheets into a folder held by the MD's PA. I work on a Tues so review the data then. To be fair, I'm not so concerned with the actual temp but the trend over the week. I hold the sheets for 2 weeks then shred.

This seems to work for them, they only have an office of about 20 staff. All are distanced, there is plenty of gel, screens have been erected.

And the protocols work, they had 1 case of the virus in the office but it didn't spread to anyone else, so we are happy our system works for us. Thats not to say it would work for everyone

stevedm  
#13 Posted : 05 October 2020 09:46:55(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...the temperature devices used to take a reading at the moment in most places is just surface temperature and are not classed as medical devices..I am feeling a huge overwhelming sense of Deja vu here...this is just theatre and does not give a febrile temperature..

I have posted this link before:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dont-rely-on-temperature-screening-products-for-detection-of-coronavirus-covid-19-says-mhra

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
Kate on 05/10/2020(UTC)
Kate  
#14 Posted : 05 October 2020 11:19:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

You can't post that link too many times in my opinion!

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
stevedm on 06/10/2020(UTC)
Mark-W  
#15 Posted : 05 October 2020 13:29:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Mark-W

As long as people realise that temp checking is only 1 weapon in an arsenal of weapons used to detect the virus and no 1 method should be used in isolation.

Plus it is effective in a placebo aspect, I have staff who religeously check their temps as they then feel they are doing their bit. And that is something I can't complain about

thanks 1 user thanked Mark-W for this useful post.
CptBeaky on 06/10/2020(UTC)
stevedm  
#16 Posted : 06 October 2020 09:49:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

...temperature checking is...but the right temperature checking...if they are taking a surface temperature it isn't worth the effort..

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