Hello all, 

I am new here and have created an account to ask this question after seeing something similar in a different thread, hopefully I am in the right place and someone can help me. I am not familiar with anything around this subject so please help me and use layman terms to get a definite answer as I cannot seem to find one beyond the jargon. 

So I am looking to install a commercial batak game in my business for customers to use. They already complete a waiver and watch a safety video to be on site which could be adapted to include this. I can buy the product no problem which will come ready to use and approproiately CE marked up. Although it costs mega money!! With my engineering background i know i could personally create the same thing for a fraction of the cost. However, where do i stand with members of the public using this electrical equipment ? 

The unit itself would run off mains, all electrical equipment could be enclosed and the enclosure could be in a secure area with no public access. Meaning the only parts to be customer accessible would be the screens and buttons. Both of which could be operated with 12 or 24V DC and would obviously be mounted securely with no access to the electrical aspects and just allow the pushing of the button to take place. 

This would be pat tested yearly as usual and i beleive there are testing and inspections certificates you can gain (any links or info on this would be helpful also). My question is, would this item need to be CE certified, or hold any other certifications for that matter to be used in a business application for members of the public to use? 

Thanks in advanced for any help, really hoping someone can give me a definitive answer and achieve this. 

Lets start by asking where in the world you are posting from? it appears english is possibly a second language. Next where in the world would you be selling this "batak" (reflex) machine? this will determine if CE is actually required.

Finally are there any patents or copyrights associated with the item you are attempting to reverse engineer? whilst you can physically achieve the machine it may be probable that doing so infringes someone elses intellectual property for which you could be sued.

Whilst you may believe assembling low cost components delivers a "cheaper" machine what testing and certification does the item you intend to copy come with that you have neglected to factor in to your cost model? For example with CE marking for electrical items requires a Notified Body based in the EU conducting testing against harmonised european standards which can be multiple thousands of pounds sterling.

Roundtuit-

Sorry, forgot to mention this is for a business in England. English is my first and only language... 

The item would not be for sale, solely built to be used within the business premise. 

I am not aware of any patents or copyrights tbh, this is not my field of expertise however the game principle itself is basic and easily adapted. Perhaps you can also advise on this area. 

The components used would be of suitable quality. Costs removed could include expensive labour time and profit margins. I know the product would come CE certified, an expensive aspect in itself, hence why a large amount of money can be saved and make this project feasible if my question can be answered and all is ok. I have already said i could have it independantly tested if required. Perhaps by a part P registerd electrician? 

Ian Bell-

Thanks for your help. I am not aware of the classification, the business itself i beleive would be categorised as leisure. 

Interesting point about brexit, hopefully this may help in my favour. 

The waiver i beleive may be around insurance purposes in case of an injury .

Kate has pretty much pinned the main consideration that you would be "placing upon the market" even if you are not charging for its use.

As the market supplier you have legal obligations to make the product safe and to provide instruction for its safe use and to generate a Technical File including test and assessment reports where necessary.

With two months until the end of the transition period it is highly unlikley you would be able to arrange testing to harmonised standards in order to apply CE marking as the test houses are currently very busy.

The current process is listed here https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/ce-marking/manufacturers_en

Standards would initially be the same at the start of next year however the number of available test houses will markedly reduce as only UK facilities will issue reports against the transposed "designated" standards with which you would be able to attach UK Conformity Assessment (UKCA) marking.

The following directives can/could apply to electrical equipment

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/electromagnetic-compatibility/

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/ecodesign/

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/low-voltage/

https://ec.europa.eu/growth/single-market/european-standards/harmonised-standards/restriction-of-hazardous-substances/

Their application would still carry forward under UK transitional arrangements - CE is not vanishing next year just getting a re-brand.

A signed waiver has no standing in UK law when it comes to matters of death or injury, any contract made with such provision is null and void (unfair terms) - you would be liable and the insurance company having taken your money would leave you hanging out to dry.

I would speculate that £8K saving you envisage is more than likely going to be consumed shipping the item and having the tests completed to demonstrate compliance to standards.

Being someone who is a freelance consultant that specialises in assisting companies with CE marking to the Low Voltage Directive and the Machinery Directive, and machinery PUWER, I concur with the other posts.

The £8k in savings will soon go in the additional time and resources that are required to comply with the legal requirements for placing this equipment onto the market..

There are no waivers that you can have for not meeting this compliance, unless you are demonstrating a prototype at an organised trade fair not open to the general public, or at a university developing a test apparatus.

So a device in a commercial enterprise, regardless of whether there is a charge for its use is required to comply with the law. i.e. be CE marked to the relevant directives.

Edited by user 28 October 2020 17:34:45(UTC)  | Reason: Typo