Rank: New forum user 
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I work for a UK chemical company. I am trying to determine if a fire strategy is needed. PAS 911 has been withdrawn and no specific reference to fire strategy in RR(FS)O 2005. Any advice will be most appreciated. Thank you.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Withdrawal of a Publicly Available Standard (PAS) does not equate to doing nothing you still need to plan how the business will deal with eventualities
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Rank: Super forum user
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Withdrawal of a Publicly Available Standard (PAS) does not equate to doing nothing you still need to plan how the business will deal with eventualities
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Rank: Super forum user
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I work across the UK and have dealing with a number of fire safety enforcement teams. I have noticed a trend in England which started years ago, but has developed since Grenfell where some are requiring more detail to be included to cover Article 11 of the Fire Safety Order which states: --------------------------------------------------------------- Fire safety arrangements11.—(1) The responsible person must make and give effect to such arrangements as are appropriate, having regard to the size of his undertaking and the nature of its activities, for the effective planning, organisation, control, monitoring and review of the preventive and protective measures. (2) The responsible person must record the arrangements referred to in paragraph (1) where— (a)he employs five or more employees; (b)a licence under an enactment is in force in relation to the premises; or (c)an alterations notice requiring a record to be made of those arrangements is in force in relation to the premises. ------------------------------------------------------------------ One particular enforcement team have already told me that the amount of detail they intend requesting will include for the premises to which the FRA refers, and also to include the corporate body's fire safety arrangements for it's estate where applicable. That sound like a Fire Safety Strategy to me, using Article 11 to shoe-horn it in to current fire safety management arrangements as an interim measure, whilst waiting for the post Grenfell legislation
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 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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...as Messy says it is a requirement of Reg 11 RRFSO...we cover it as part of the overall fire safety philosophy for the plants but it must specifically address the points in and reference to R11...
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1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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When ever its says “arrangements” I have always assumed that this means who does what- a designated person to make sure the FRA is done and that someone is responsible for make sure it is followed through, including training, fire drills etc. A strategy is more description of how the organisation deals with an issue rather than who deals with it. It is about philosophy and culture as much as the nuts and bolts of who does what. For example, a strategy could decide to centralise everything with a dedicated fire safety team running it all or it could decide that this should be managed locally.
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1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel  When ever its says “arrangements” I have always assumed that this means who does what- a designated person to make sure the FRA is done and that someone is responsible for make sure it is followed through, including training, fire drills etc. A strategy is more description of how the organisation deals with an issue rather than who deals with it. It is about philosophy and culture as much as the nuts and bolts of who does what. For example, a strategy could decide to centralise everything with a dedicated fire safety team running it all or it could decide that this should be managed locally.
That is a fair point Kurdziel, and I expect every book on safety or business management, has a different definition of the word strategy. However, in good old english, The Oxford Dictionary defines strategy as: “A plan of action designed to achieve a long-term or overall aim”.
To me, that OED definition ties in neatly to what I believe Article 11 requires and is probably why a number of enforcing authorities are now getting a bit pedantic about Resp Persons recording something that resembles a brief strategy (or in the case of the Crown fire safety inspectors, a huge tome!!)
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Rank: Super forum user
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If they are looking at a strategy how would they evaluate it taking into account that they are not people who audit management systems, rather than fire enforcement inspectors. Surely, they are not going to ask about safety meetings and if fire issues were mentioned there anymore than the HSE requires you to follow HSG 65. Crown Fire Inspectors were always amenable to reason in my day; preferred them to the local inspectors. Perhaps they have recruited a bunch of “enthusiasts” recently?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Crown Fire Inspectors were always amenable to reason in my day; preferred them to the local inspectors. Perhaps they have recruited a bunch of “enthusiasts” recently?
They are a lovely bunch and massively understaffed for the amount of premises involved. Thankfully in the last few years they have focussed much more on the higher risk end of their portfolio and in particular prisons, as this is where people are becoming injured and dying compared with job centres and HMRC offices. But they remain massively presciptive compared with most local authority fire service enforcement teams I have encountered and that can be a pain.
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