Is it just me or has the IOSH forum deteriorated during the Covid 19 Pandemic due to the lack of moderation? Its always been a place for Healthy Professional discussion but right now we have people calling each other idiots and even suggesting that they should be put in institutions because they don’t hold the same view as some other people.

I have been called “tainted” because of my long carrier as a H&S enforcer before crossing the fence (latter withdrawn)

I still stand by what I have said that Covid is a public Health Crisis and not a Health and Safety Issues, if the scientists cannot agree how can we as mere H&S people suggest different control measures.

But surely the fact of the matter is that the government has issued official guidance and legislation, just as they have always done, and as “the competent person” in our companies its our job and duty to see that this guidance is put in place even if we think its over the top or we don’t agree with it?

Unless we get some moderation back on this site I think we run the risk of becoming a laughing stock.

Brian - you say our task is simply to implement the Government guidance. But what do you do then when the Government guidance is not correct or, as it is in my particular area of work, often inappropriate for specific situations? This has occurred more than once with their guidance on prevention of infection by SARS-Cov-2 virus. I simply cannot recommend action that the scientific evidence that I have acquired shows clearly is not the optimum. I see my responsibility is to those I am advising to 'tell it as it is' not pass on advice that would increase the risk of damage to health.

This is the horns of our dilemma as H&S professionals. I agree with Brian when he says the covid 19 issue is to H&S related. If it was, we would carry out a suitable and sufficient risk assessment and concluded that for our workplace it is not an issue and forget about it. It is a public health matter where we are expected to simply follow government rules. Unfortunately, this government speaks with a fork tongue, blurring the difference between actual regulations which we must follow and guidance which they are suggesting that we could follow. And then you get  ministers who seem to be going against the spirit of the government’s own advice eg a Scotch egg with your drink counts as a substantial meal. That with confusion over face shields against face coverings, it’s not surprising that we as H&S professionals don’t really know what to do.    

The whole "substantial meal" scenario is a farce.

When it was first muted a Cornish Pasty on its own was not deemed to be "substantial" -  this from the political party that brought us pasty gate (my memories of what a holiday is may be receeding but the feeling of being absolutely stuffed at lunchtime from eating a pasty on Porthminster and Porthmeor Beaches remain).

We also saw "pizza gate" in Manchester's Northern Quarter where a single slice being offered was the equivalent of a standard supermarket offering but the local constabulary concluded a "slice" did not fit the definition.

Originally Posted by: chris.packham

Brian - you say our task is simply to implement the Government guidance. But what do you do then when the Government guidance is not correct or, as it is in my particular area of work, often inappropriate for specific situations?

Chris you are one of the few here who is a specialist in 1 field. Not many of us have that luxury.

Can i ask you a question.? Have you ever been in the witness box in a  Coroners court tio be asked to say that the diver of a piece of plant equipment had died because he was incompitant becuse he had no training record for it?

Let me tell you its not nice to be asked that question with the widow and 16 year old daughter - my response - "i cannot state that as fact becuase there is no requirement to attend a formal cause onlt to be trained - this gentleman may have recieved training from someone else". How could I say that - because its in the guidance (and the law)

I have just been asked if its OK for people to sit at a shared PC if they wear face shileds - my response - that is not acceptable in the guidance and i as i am not a virologist i cannot say its fine.

But we are getting away from the point here - i was not sugesting that we ignore poor advice - just that we do it in a professional manner rather than resort to name calling!