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Posted By Safe System
Might sound a daft one..
But would a lifting plan be required for moving some blocks off the back of a HIAB to ground level?
If so, does anyone have something that i could review please as currently i am only writing plans for Tower Cranes/Mobile Cranes.
Thanks,
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Posted By A Campbell
Safe,
Just out of interest have you asked the HIAB company and have decided if they cannot provide a contract lift with lifting plan as part of the job?
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Posted By Safe System
Hi AC,
We own the HIAB but i'm making changes to the company i joined but wasn't 100% sure about the HIAB requirements...
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Posted By alex mccreadie
Safe System justb treat it like your mobile lift plan.
If you are fortunate there will be a plate on the crane showing the radius and weights that can be lifted at each point.
Good Hunting Alex
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Posted By Samm T
We didn't use a lifting plan for the hiab used on our sites, but our clients H&S Manager decided that we needed one so we complied after a lengthly discussion with the hiab company.
We were then glad we had one after they dropped a cabinet that was being delivered lukely nobody was hurt.
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Posted By Neil R
There is no legal requirement to create a lift plan for the use of a HIAB. Method statements and specific risk assessments are perfectly acceptable.
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Posted By Safe System
Neil, this is what i wasn't to sure about.. thanks.. can anyone else confirm this? (no offence Neil, but 50 thousand blow flies and all that)
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Posted By Safe System
Actually... thinking about it ... Doesn't LOLER state under what equipment is covered by the regs:
"Lifting equipment includes ANY equipment used at work for lifting or lowering loads."
Therefore HIAB would come under LOLER would it not?
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Safe
Indeed, low loaders (HIABs) are covered by LOLER and PUWER. Whether a lifting plan is required is a moot point, as it would be dependant on the risks involved. That said, generic lifting plans could be implemented for most, if not all, types of lifting activities.
Ray
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Posted By Neil R
Safe system, no offence taken always best to check, the reg 8 of LOLER is what your refering to, the requirement is that lifts are planned properly, LOLER requires that a written plan is produced for 'major operations'.
Use of a HIAB is not a major operation it is a routine generic lifting operation, remember 'reasonably practicable' is it practicable to produce a lift plan for each HIAB lift, no definetely not. So a generic method statement and site specific risk assessment is more than sufficient.
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Posted By al wood
we treat a hi-ab as a truck/lorry mounted crane and most of our clients insist on a lifting plan for these.
your A.P. should easily be able to prepare a suitable lifting plan for thye hi-ab although you may have to get hold of the duty charts from the owner or manufacturer.
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Posted By Neil R
If a HIAB does numerous lifts a day, as per its intended use, how can you do a lift plan everytime? if your talking generic lifting plans then whats the point?
Theres nothing to gain by doing a lift plan, site specific risk assessment is the important thing
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Posted By Raymond Rapp
Neil
Don't wish to be pedantic but a lift plan might be required in some circumstances eg due to the weight of the load, the use of outriggers and correct tyre pressures would have to be checked in line with the manufacturers guidance.
I agree that normal HIAB lifting would be considered as basic lifting work and therefore does not require a specific lift plan.
Ray
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Posted By D H
Safe Systems - How much information have you gleaned from the various forums you have asked the same question to?
I understand that you can open up your options, but what is your strategy of feeding back to the forums you ask?
If you get good information from one, but another cannot answer your question, do you then insert that new learned information for that forum to learn?
No evidence that you do IMHO - that is why it is a waste of time joining new forums as the same stuff is being recycled as new.
Would seriously appreciate your comments and how you feel you contribute to the others you are aligned with.
Regards
Dave
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Posted By Carsten Barrett
From the original description i.e. blocks lifted to ground (a routine lift) a simple method statement and risk assessment is more than adequate.
CB
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Posted By al wood
try telling that to some of the safety bods who work for MCG companies who insist on a comprehensive lifting plan for these type of activities every time.
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Posted By Neil R
Al Wood,
I am a safety bod from an MCG, i also know many other MCG safety bods and not one of us asks for a lift plan.
MCGs have huge robust management systems covering every work aspect, Issues such as LOLER are covered in depth, maybe some MCGs do specify lifting plan for HIABs (although i don't know any). If they are asking for a lidt plan then its likely to be because the management system requests it rather than their personal choice.
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Posted By al wood
you must be the exception then
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Posted By Neil R
As i said i know many others, so not the exception. A lot of the time companies/ people dont seem to understand what we are asking for..
I've had many hire companies come back with a detailed lift plan after being sent away from site when all i asked for was that a site specific risk assessment was completed prior to the lift.
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Posted By al wood
"provide a lifting plan for your hi-ab delivery wagons" is what i was asked for plain and simple.
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Rank: New forum user
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LOLER Regulation 8 (1)(a) Planning individual lifting operations. Section 221 For routine lifting operations the planning of each individual lifting operation will usually be a matter for the people using the lifting equipment, such as a slinger, the forklift truck operator etc. The person carrying out this part of the planning exercise should have appropriate knowledge and experience and the organisation should have a simple plan, generic risk assessment and procedures in place to support them.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Have to ask why an 11 year old post has been resurrected? Advert to follow?
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Rank: Super forum user
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Have to ask why an 11 year old post has been resurrected? Advert to follow?
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DPH - your reply 11 years to the day since these Forums were reborn doesn't really answer the Q. So, I don't really understand your point.
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Forum Name: jason90212992= Boon Chye Oh (Singapore) I belive good lifting plan is universal.
https://www.wshc.sg/wps/PA_IFWSHCInfoStop/DownloadServlet?infoStopYear=2014&infoStopID=IS2014090300805&folder=IS2014090300805&file=Code_of_Practice_Safe_Lifting_Operations_Revised_2014.pdf
I have attached the Code of Practice on Safe Lifting Operations in the Workplaces may be useful to you.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Many thanks for the Singapore document.
For the UK we have the Lifting Operations Lifting Equipment Regulations along with an Approved Code of Practice "Safe use of lifting equipment Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998" (amended 2018) https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l113.pdf Still not sure why this post was revisited after lying dormant for 11 years - this was/is a favourite trick from click bait/commercial advert/SPAM posters.
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 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Many thanks for the Singapore document.
For the UK we have the Lifting Operations Lifting Equipment Regulations along with an Approved Code of Practice "Safe use of lifting equipment Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment Regulations 1998" (amended 2018) https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l113.pdf Still not sure why this post was revisited after lying dormant for 11 years - this was/is a favourite trick from click bait/commercial advert/SPAM posters.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: New forum user
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Hi, Actually I wouldn't mind to revisit this post. I'm working for a company who uses lorry loaders, telehandlers, excavators, forklifts, etc for different lifting exercises.
More and more of our clients require lift plans for all kind of lifting.
I am an AP, and work as a SHEQ Assistant for the company. I now have to compile generic lift plans for every kind of lifting we do. This is a huge task and would appreciate any input.
Thanks in advance
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Richard If your clients are competent they will expect the lift plans to be specific to the work being done. So, why select e.g. a HIAB and why that HIAB? This is the load (including the weight of accessories). This is where it has to lift to. These are the safe operating conditions for that lift. The chosen HIAB has paperwork that demonstrates it can do this + and here are the competent people that are needed. This is the exclusion zone required around the lift etc etc. Generic plans are fine as a starting point. But you should have them on the shelf waiting to be adjusted to be site and task specific. So the generic plans should not be a major task for your company.
P
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1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
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Interesting discussion around lifting plans for HIAB's and can can see both sides of the spectrum. One way I have managed this in the past is to include within the project/site lifting and rigging procedure a requirement for a specific lifting plan for any planned lift within the calculated radius for lifts over 75% of the SWL of the machine whether it be a HIAB or any other item of plant used for lifting operations as well as cranes. You could even make this figure greater depending on other conditions or risk factors within your orgainisation. By implementing this, you can better manage lifting operations wrt loads when sometimes the weights are not fully known and subsequent unnecessary risks are taken.
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Thanks for the above posts, most helpful, one question I have is does a delivery of materials using a HIAB require the generic RAMS to be produced by a formally trained (CPCS or ALLMI) "Approved Person"? According to the ALLMI Guidance on the Safe Use of Lorry Loaders Document they do. Does anyone have any experience of this?
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I havent been on the forum for awhile and after reading the HIAB post it appears that Im not missing much. Having read the answers to the question , no one came up with a definitive answer. Surely this is where IOSH administrators/ facilitators should step in with a definitive answer and help for the person posting the original question. Starting to wonder what Im paying for. There apears to be lots of questions on the forum that never really get answered with a definitive answer, lots of grey areas which means we all produce work which may not be required .
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Rank: Super forum user
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Are you perhaps confusing the purpose of these forums with a subscription based information service? The banner at the top of the forum is a pretty good indicator those absolute "stand up in court" "professionally indemnified replies you seek will not be found here.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Are you perhaps confusing the purpose of these forums with a subscription based information service? The banner at the top of the forum is a pretty good indicator those absolute "stand up in court" "professionally indemnified replies you seek will not be found here.
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I understand the purpose of the forum , but every time i read the replies on various subjects there just appears to be far too many contradictions or people going off on tangents, which sometimes have nothing to do with the original thread.
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Rank: Super forum user
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There are many who empathise over the threads being hi-jacked - so many calls for the return of moderators.
Edited by user 07 February 2021 21:38:09(UTC)
| Reason: K.I.S.S.
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There are many who empathise over the threads being hi-jacked - so many calls for the return of moderators.
Edited by user 07 February 2021 21:38:09(UTC)
| Reason: K.I.S.S.
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Michael, sometimes there is NO single "definitive" answer and as Roundtuit has indicated some people posting have to worry about their professional indemnity insurance.
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