Rank: Forum user
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Hi
I've been asked to give a presentation on the above matter and how it relates to our business I understand culpability / harm category when arriving at a range for a fine and what mitigating factors reduce that fine. What I am unsure on is the custodial sentencing , on reading the definitive guidelines it splits into several parts 3 of them being - Organisations - This section makes no reference to custodial sentencing
- Individuals - This does make reference to custodial sentencing
- Corporate Manslaughter - This section makes no reference to custodial sentencing.
Is corporate manslaughter not part of H&S law, but brought about by CPS? The company where I work has departmental managers and a Site Lead. The site lead answers to the managing director, who answers to the board directors. So in a situation where there was blatant disregard for H&S resulting in the death of person - it was proven that the board knew about these failings but refused to act / invest which could have prevented it who can potentially be convicted? All of them? Or just the owner? Or the person who could sign the cheque off for investement It is an area of H&S I'm weak on - I suppose I need to read up on case studies etc..
Any help guidance / reading to sign post me to would be helpful Many thanks
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Rank: Super forum user
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Mersey.
Have you looked at the HSE pages? https://www.hse.gov.uk/corpmanslaughter/faqs.htm#directors
These state the following.
Will directors, board members or other individuals be prosecuted?The offence is concerned with corporate liability and does not apply to directors or other individuals who have a senior role in the company or organisation. However, existing health and safety offences and gross negligence manslaughter will continue to apply to individuals. Prosecutions against individuals will continue to be taken where there is sufficient evidence and it is in the public interest to do so.
I dont think corporate manslaughter works quite the way some think it does - gross negligance manslaughter has been avialable for years - and has been used to prosecute individuals.
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Rank: Super forum user
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The crime of Corporate Manslaughter (or Corporate Homicide in Scotland) was created to make it easier to prosecute a company or other corporation for incidents which lead to someone’s death where the corporate body ie the company could be held culpable for the death. Previous attempts had been made to apply the common law offense to companies, but the courts had insisted that there had to be a ‘controlling mind’ behind the offense. This lead to the grossly unfair situation where a small business run by an individual could be prosecuted as it was obvious where the controlling mind lay. By contrast a large company where responsibility was shared could avoid prosecution as it was difficult to identify where the ‘controlling mind’ was. The 2005 Act created a new offence of Corporate Manslaughter which is only applicable to corporations not individuals, who can still be prosecuted for common law manslaughter. As the law only applies to corporations there is no point in having anything like a custodial sentence under it: you can’t send a company on prison. You can of course fine the company and the fine is potentially unlimited. The Sentencing Guidance Council has provided guidance on what sort of fine should be imposed and last time I looked the starting point for a fine was £500 000 but this can be adjusted up or down for each case. This legislation is not H&S law and as such it is not investigated by the HSE but in practice if someone dies in what looks like a workplace accident a joint investigation is launched by the HSE and the Police. There is an agreed protocol for how this should work. People will be interviewed jointly by the HSE and the Police who will then look at the evidence and decide which charges should be brought for whom; under the Health and Safety at Work Act and/or Corporate Manslaughter. Note that it is important that people understand in what capacity they are being interviewed. They might be interviewed to establish personal culpability, which means the rules under PACE apply and they can not be made to incriminate themselves, but they also might be interviewed on behalf of the company in which case the self incrimination rules would not apply ie they can be expected to dobb in the company. That means hat one of things that the company needs to think about is if they will pay for the legal defence of employees or just to defend the company.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Note that it is important that people understand in what capacity they are being interviewed. They might be interviewed to establish personal culpability, which means the rules under PACE apply and they can not be made to incriminate themselves, but they also might be interviewed on behalf of the company in which case the self incrimination rules would not apply ie they can be expected to dobb in the company. That means hat one of things that the company needs to think about is if they will pay for the legal defence of employees or just to defend the company.
This reminds me of something that happened in the mid-2000's.
I happended to be visiting the SHE Manager of a company that had a subsiduary involvement in the investigation of a major incident. Some employees were being interviewed under PACE and the company was refusing to provide legal representation as they were not being interviewed on behalf of the company. Quite an argument took place between managers, Trades Union reps and company lawyers. The employees were visably distressed as they had asumed that they would get representation from the (large) company lawyers. Not made any better by the team of HSE Inspectors who reminded the employees that they had been formally advised in the PACE notification to get legal representation. Unfortunatelly this all played out in reception.
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This is often made worse because the company will pay for senior managers’ lawyers but not for others who feel they have been thrown to the wolves. Of course any self respecting HSE Inspector will tell you that they are not interested, in the small fry, but are aiming for the big fish. The health and safety manager are even of less interest and is usually thrown back first!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel The health and safety manager are even of less interest and is usually thrown back first!
Unfortunatelly been there more than once when functional managers appear supprised that they are being questioned but the HSE Inspectors have no interest in H&S personnel.
I've even managed to witness a director get themselves a contempt of court charge for insisting it should have been the H&S Advisor (not me by the way) in the witness box and not him as "thats what I pay them for". Edited by user 09 March 2021 13:05:22(UTC)
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I was involved in 2 corporate manslaughter investigations before leaving my role as a H&S inspector. Im my (limited I agree) experience the police and CPS don’t understand Corporate Manslaughter. They are still looking for the Smoking Gun, i.e an individual to blame. One case was dropped quickly (insufficient evidence) one they spent a year on – then handed back to us to investigate as no individual identified. The company was fined £1.6M as the new sentencing guidelines applied. It was in our view systemic failures of the management system all the way to the top. The only difference if the police had taken the case is it is likely the verdict would have been manslaughter and not just section 3 HASAW act offence – which may have given the family some comfort that justice had been done.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Mersey You wrote "It is an area of H&S I'm weak on - I suppose I need to read up on case studies etc.." Not much to read due to the dearth of cases taken to date, and in particular the lack of cases against the sort of corporations that the legislation was aimed at, such that, as example, the very first case involved a company with just four employees where the evidence had the MD at the scene of the crime, so that it would have been very easy to point to the controlling mind. But as is implicit in what others have written just because a case leads to a charge of corporate manslaughter against a corporation doesn't preclude action also being taken against individuals for gross manslaughter and/or breaches of HSWA.
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