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Should the wearing face coverings/masks long term in classooms,be time limited? PPE/facemasks of the correct type & worn correctly can prevent the spread of C-19. However,on the negative side, they restrict oxygen & increase the levels of carbon dioxide.Hence, particularly for children should the wearing be time-limited?
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How would this work then? Not sure what you mean about 'time limited'. If is judged that masks are needed to reduce the risk of transmission, then that would be the case whenever pupils are in close proximity to other pupils and staff. Asthma aside, reductions in Oxygen should not be significant, I would have thought. The discomfort of wearing them, and effects on the skin, are likely to be a more significant bugbear, not to mention the problem of spectacles steaming up.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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 1 user thanked Alan Haynes for this useful post.
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pdurkin The guidance says "face coverings", not respiratory protective equipment. The guidance is still intended to be such that the coverings provide a degree of protection to persons OTHER than the user. For some the face covering might be what a person might wear as a matter of routine religious observance pandemic or no pandemic. Even if the guidance was for RPE there are plenty of people who are unfortunate enough to need to wear RPE for lengthy periods. Is there any evidence that using RPE impacts on oxygen intake or that it results in an increase in CO2 intake?
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1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: pdurkin  However,on the negative side, they restrict oxygen & increase the levels of carbon dioxide.Hence, particularly for children should the wearing be time-limited?
If the oxygen reduction or CO2 buildup was significant then no practical time-limit is likely to be beneficial - I can't see any likelihood that a face covering that you can safely wear for more than three or four minutes will be hazardous if worn for eight or ten hours. Plenty of people work in more restrictive face masks for longer periods.
Where is your evidence that a cface covering restricts oxygen and increase CO2 to a degree that has any effect?
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1 user thanked achrn for this useful post.
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Looking at the various televised news reports I find it questionable that any school face covering seen to date has fitted in such a manner as to reduce oxygen / increase CO2. People outside of their employment following face covering guidance should not be in fitted RPE.
Even those who have bought industrial masks are not face fitted and again "as seen on TV" and the supermarket are not wearing the device in accordance with manufacturer fitting instruction. If the small hole in a biro body / lid can allow someone to breath that enormous gap at the side of a "mask" ensures no significant change in the levels of gasses for face covering wearers.
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4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Looking at the various televised news reports I find it questionable that any school face covering seen to date has fitted in such a manner as to reduce oxygen / increase CO2. People outside of their employment following face covering guidance should not be in fitted RPE.
Even those who have bought industrial masks are not face fitted and again "as seen on TV" and the supermarket are not wearing the device in accordance with manufacturer fitting instruction. If the small hole in a biro body / lid can allow someone to breath that enormous gap at the side of a "mask" ensures no significant change in the levels of gasses for face covering wearers.
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4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Last summer when I was in hospital for three days I wore a facial covering the whole time except when eating or drinking. I had no problems with this. I would like to see the evidence that wearing such a covering increases the level of CO2 that is being inhaled. Has anyone studied this properly?
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The negative impact of face coverings was widley publised on social media when their madatory use was being introduced. If you search on any inetrnet search engine you will find this claim debunked on many sites. I belive the site saying its rubbish are more reputable than those claiming health impact.
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This is children.
The ones who have repiratory problems may not appreciate having their faces covered, the ones not having respiratory problems may not appreciate having to wear face coverings when others do not.
I doubt the ability of school staff to appreciate the problems an asthmatic child has by having their face covered.
This is my experience, from having a grandchild with problems at school.
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as with the face covering regulations children with medical reasons are exempt (providing the "need to be seen" brigade are listening)
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Rank: Super forum user
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as with the face covering regulations children with medical reasons are exempt (providing the "need to be seen" brigade are listening)
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: pdurkin However,on the negative side, they restrict oxygen & increase the levels of carbon dioxide.Hence, particularly for children should the wearing be time-limited?
As has been said already, this is demonstrably false. It has been tested and re-tested and there is no reduction in oxygen levels, even when 3 or 4 masks are worn concurrently. If the face coverings were face fitted there is an arguement on the extra strain they place on the lungs, which is why face fitted masks are reccommended for short periods only. But even then it does not reduce oxygen levels. Whether children can be trusted to wear them correctly, whether the constant touching and re-arranging of the masks is a transmission hazard etc are different arguements entirely and probably point to them not being particularly effective in schools.
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1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
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If a brain surgeon can wear a medical mask for 10 hours straight and is able to do his job then school pupils will be fine!
The problem I have is the type of masks most pupils in our schools wear ie snood/neckie type made of very thin material, they have been shown in studies to make things worse not better as they force the aerosolisation of breath into tiny droplets which carry further than if breathing sans mask!
All other mask types show benefits of wearing them but as long as you have something over your mouth and nose you are "following the guidance" and good to go, whether this makes things worse is irrelevant!
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I did think about commenting on surgeons wearing masks for long time periods, but DP beat me to it. I also read about a doctor who ran a marathon wearing a face mask to prove it didn't affect his breathing. Seems a bit OTT to prove a point, but there you go.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Originally Posted by: pdurkin However,on the negative side, they restrict oxygen & increase the levels of carbon dioxide.Hence, particularly for children should the wearing be time-limited?
Paul, do you have a peer reviewed source for this assertion, or is it just "common sense"? Apologies if we are coming across heavy. Edited by user 12 March 2021 16:11:45(UTC)
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As was said the masks that people wear all day are NOT RPE and are not close fitting, so getting enough oxygen should not be an issue. One thought that did strike me is that if a person wears the same mask day and out it will get moist and clammy; ideal conditions for fungal growth and some fungi release spores which can cause serious health problems. So I would suggest that people change their masks regularly and either launder them or dispose of them, preferably not on the street.
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2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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https://principia-scientific.com/watch-mask-test-proves-toxic-for-children/
Please advise is this authenticated? High levels of CO2 & low lvels of O2 inside Childs mask !!
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Tests conducted on the "son of the author" of the web site.
After careful consideration I am going to conclude this is neither scientific nor a report with any merit.
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Tests conducted on the "son of the author" of the web site.
After careful consideration I am going to conclude this is neither scientific nor a report with any merit.
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Well, considering the wellbeing of the pupils, I think the nose mask should be wear at interval, maybe when they need to move a bit close to each other. But when they are sitting normally, I don't think it is necessary because there would be social distancing already which I feel it's enough to resist the transmission at that time.
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Originally Posted by: pdurkin https://principia-scientific.com/watch-mask-test-proves-toxic-for-children/
Please advise is this authenticated? High levels of CO2 & low lvels of O2 inside Childs mask !!
This is completely false, and has been debunked numerous times. If this were the case then surgeons would be dropping unconsious all the time, along with anybody wearing face fitted masks for their jobs. The idea that oxygen couldn't get through some fibre is laughable.
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1 user thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
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Originally Posted by: pdurkin https://principia-scientific.com/watch-mask-test-proves-toxic-for-children/
Please advise is this authenticated? High levels of CO2 & low lvels of O2 inside Childs mask !!
It';s utter rubbish. All the video demonstrates is that expired (breathed) air has a higher level of CO2 in it than the level that is considered safe in the general atmosphere.
I suspect he'd have got substantially the same result had he just held the probe in front of the mouth without a fac-mask in place, tehrby 'proving' taht not wearing a mask gives deadly levels of CO2., and presumably that the human race actually died out millenia ago and we're all just brains in jars...
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3 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
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These children have been back in school long enough now that they could not have held their breath for that amount of time. So far, no reports of any of them suffocating, so I think we are all good. Chris
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2 users thanked chris42 for this useful post.
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biker1 on 16/03/2021(UTC), Kate on 17/03/2021(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: CptBeaky Originally Posted by: pdurkin https://principia-scientific.com/watch-mask-test-proves-toxic-for-children/
Please advise is this authenticated? High levels of CO2 & low lvels of O2 inside Childs mask !!
This is completely false, and has been debunked numerous times. If this were the case then surgeons would be dropping unconsious all the time, along with anybody wearing face fitted masks for their jobs. The idea that oxygen couldn't get through some fibre is laughable.
As well as this, if this study was accurate, it would effectively declare all respiratory protection unsafe.
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Originally Posted by: Elizabethven Well, considering the wellbeing of the pupils, I think the nose mask should be wear at interval, maybe when they need to move a bit close to each other. But when they are sitting normally, I don't think it is necessary because there would be social distancing already which I feel it's enough to resist the transmission at that time.
Pupils are not socially distanced in classrooms which is why the wearing of masks is deemed necessary.
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Of course, its more nonsense. We can mask them all we want during school hours. They mix before and after school and on weekends. Just take a drive in the car and look out the window.
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1 user thanked N Hancock for this useful post.
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My daughter is 7 so she does not wear a mask. Instead they organised into “bubbles” and she can only mix with other children in her bubble while at school. The bubbles have separate start and end times and take breaks at different times. She does miss playing with her best friends who are in the other bubbles, but she is putting up with this for now( and coping with the slight loss of freedom better than some adults!) My son who is in secondary school does wear a face mask at school and has to maintain social distancing. In particular no adults, other than staff, are allowed on school premises . The school had a reputation for encouraging parents to turn up as and when but not now. These controls will not stop people catching covid 19 entirely but will limit its spread and reduce that R number to below 1.0 and keep it there.
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