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iluvmywife  
#1 Posted : 05 May 2021 07:44:30(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
iluvmywife

Hi guys,

I am currently based in a hospital and like most hospitals, has a Pharmacy. The Pharmacy contains hundreds of products that consistantly change making the idea of a COSHH assessment inpracticable. 

I have tried to fine clarification as to whether all these products need seperate COSHH assessments?

or just the (Cytotoxic drugs) and then a risk assessment for the rest identifying the risk as a whole?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated :-)

A Kurdziel  
#2 Posted : 05 May 2021 08:38:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

The bit that throws people. CLP, the Classification, Labelling and Packing Regs which place a duty on suppliers to classify, label and correctly package products does not apply to pharmaceutical products which leads people  role to assume that because of that COSHH does not apply to drugs etc. But of course it does.

Before people panic they need to also recall that COSHH risk assessment like all risk assessment relates to process not just the substances involved, so if the drugs are just sitting on shelves in packages it isn’t that big an issue. It’s what you do with the drugs that is important.  I am assuming that  when ever a drug is being used some sort of protocol needs to be followed to ensure patient safety.  All that needs to happen then is the protocols is extended to include those delivering the drug ie what do you do to ensure that staff do not inject themselves or what would they do if they spilt a cytotoxic drug on their hands. Would they be wearing gloves and would the gloves be adequate?

iluvmywife  
#3 Posted : 05 May 2021 09:07:51(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
iluvmywife

Hi A Kurdziel,

Thank you for the quick reply, that makes perfect sense.

To clarify: In and out stock such as over the counter products are generally treated as any other retail outlet products (storage, transport and spills procedures)

Products that are administered or used in other procedures and could cause harm are given more attention (Task COSHH assessment)

Best,

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 05 May 2021 10:24:50(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Quite possible, even probable that the pharmacy has done the assessment, but just not called it a COSHH assessment. They might call it a protocol for not accidentally administering drugs to persons (including themselves and others in the pharmacy) other than those for whom they are intended.

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
aud on 12/05/2021(UTC)
stevedm  
#5 Posted : 05 May 2021 16:37:29(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

The Pharmacy should have a Pharmacy manual that covers all of the procedures for the control of medicines and authorisations and how to issue and what to do about refusing...storage/waste can also be covered by the HTM-01-07...short reply I will put more links in later...:)

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
aud on 12/05/2021(UTC)
kmason83  
#6 Posted : 05 May 2021 17:21:03(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
kmason83

I have done some risk assessment work for a pharmacy it was a few years ago, there is something about an exemption of some kind somewhere I am certain of it, whilst they are in the pharmacy you have to assess the likelihood of the controlled drug being used by unauthorised persons but then I was certain because its sealed or something like that its exempt. I don't currently have access to my desktop at the minute or I would give you the exact place to find it.

chris.packham  
#7 Posted : 05 May 2021 20:21:07(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Keep in mind that COSHH stands for 'control'. In other words, the emphasis is what happens to the chemical when some task is carried out. Is there a risk that exposure will, or might occur, when that particular task is carried out? If not then no formal risk assessment will be needed, regardless of the hazard that the substance might intrinsically present. Even a low hazard substance, e.g. water, can present a significant hazard should there be sufficient exposure, whereas a toxic, hazardous chemical might present little risk if the situation is such that exposue is not a consideration. In a sense one might say: "It's not what is in the bottle that matters, it's what happens to the bottle." So many different bottles containing different chemicals could present the same risk in one task (no potential for breakage or opening of the bottle) but considerably different ones in another (significant risk of bottle breakage or bottle being opened).

thanks 2 users thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 06/05/2021(UTC), aud on 12/05/2021(UTC)
stevedm  
#8 Posted : 07 May 2021 07:24:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

the exemption is only for administering medicines i.e in the course of medical treatment ...COSHH still applies depending on the task, Pharmacists have to complete COSHH assessments as part of thier training...

SBH  
#9 Posted : 07 May 2021 12:29:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
SBH

Is there an hazard pictogram? Plus are you just storing the products for patients - plus are you mixing products. In my view the majority of medicines do not need assessing as they may not be hazardous in their stored condition but they possible are when givenj to the patient., and can you control that? I think not. eg would you risk assess paracetemol ? In my view if its prescribed no assessment.  However biological and carcinogenic issues etc can raise their heads on some products. Therefore read the manufacturers SDS

SBH

chris.packham  
#10 Posted : 07 May 2021 12:54:09(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

A thought based on the above regarding the SDS.

For a variety of health concerns I regularly take a number of medications. If I read the hazard warnings , i.e. possible adverse reactions, on the information that I receive for each of these, then the individual and combination of potential health issues is substantial and potentially serious. I am neither a chemist, pharmacist nor toxicologist, so how do I assess the risk to me of taking these medicines?  Can I also assume that most of them are only potentially hazardous to me if I ingest them as oppposed to handling them? As I have never seen a SDS that covers the hazards for Paracetamol, am I safe to handle the tablet or should I insist on the capsule, as presumably the material of the capsule will prevent any contact with the medicine itself?

Would even a trained and experienced pharmacist be able to provide me with more comprehensive guidance?

Perhaps we might start by trying to establish the history of adverse health effects in dispensaries (as opposed to manufacture) to see it this indicates whether we are looking for a solution to a problem that does not require one.

Roundtuit  
#11 Posted : 07 May 2021 13:20:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The listing on ECHA for Paracetamol: According to the classification provided by companies to ECHA in REACH registrations this substance is harmful if swallowed, may cause damage to organs and is harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

The instructions on the box: "Swallow, preferably with a drink of water"

Roundtuit  
#12 Posted : 07 May 2021 13:20:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The listing on ECHA for Paracetamol: According to the classification provided by companies to ECHA in REACH registrations this substance is harmful if swallowed, may cause damage to organs and is harmful to aquatic life with long lasting effects.

The instructions on the box: "Swallow, preferably with a drink of water"

A Kurdziel  
#13 Posted : 07 May 2021 14:13:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

COSHH like any risk assessment  is to  do with the process not the substance. So if something is sitting on the shelf in a stable environment you do not have to worry about it until you decide to do something with it.  For example, in one of our labs researchers  will take several grams of paracetamol  tablets and grind up  them to use in an experiment. The paracetamol powder is clearly a hazardous substance and any process involving it needs to be done under a COSHH risk assessment.  These are the same tables that you buy in a pharmacy  and take for a headache. Issuing drugs as a medicine does not require a COSHH assessment but other activities involving the same substances might.

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
stevedm on 07/05/2021(UTC)
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