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Roundtuit  
#1 Posted : 25 July 2020 10:16:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Probably more a warning to venues with crowds or audiences but we now have a company pushing the concept of applying Hypochlorous Acid in a spray tunnel.

This "pennies" treatment is on the list of active ingredients approved by ECHA under the Biocidal Products Regulation BUT the decision adopted in June 2020 is for use in liquid form for direct application as a hand/foot/skin disnfectant.

https://echa.europa.eu/documents/10162/b141f948-19ba-835e-beca-9fa1ad2b5711

In other words using it as a "mist" directly on to the general public with the ability to be inhaled is NOT an exposure scenario that has been considered or evaluated.

Will make for an intersting COSHH assessment given the active is free chlorine.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 27/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 27/07/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 25 July 2020 10:16:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Probably more a warning to venues with crowds or audiences but we now have a company pushing the concept of applying Hypochlorous Acid in a spray tunnel.

This "pennies" treatment is on the list of active ingredients approved by ECHA under the Biocidal Products Regulation BUT the decision adopted in June 2020 is for use in liquid form for direct application as a hand/foot/skin disnfectant.

https://echa.europa.eu/documents/10162/b141f948-19ba-835e-beca-9fa1ad2b5711

In other words using it as a "mist" directly on to the general public with the ability to be inhaled is NOT an exposure scenario that has been considered or evaluated.

Will make for an intersting COSHH assessment given the active is free chlorine.

thanks 4 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 27/07/2020(UTC), A Kurdziel on 27/07/2020(UTC), Kate on 27/07/2020(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 19 May 2021 18:50:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

According to todays press one of the nations beers (apologies Nicola its not Tennant's) is now sponsoring these tunnel things for pubs

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pub-installs-antiviral-gateway-sanitises-24142702

You would have thought a large international beverage supplier would be aware of how to safely handle disinfectant products and not involve itself in a possible class action for exposing the public to.......

Roundtuit  
#4 Posted : 19 May 2021 18:50:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

According to todays press one of the nations beers (apologies Nicola its not Tennant's) is now sponsoring these tunnel things for pubs

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/pub-installs-antiviral-gateway-sanitises-24142702

You would have thought a large international beverage supplier would be aware of how to safely handle disinfectant products and not involve itself in a possible class action for exposing the public to.......

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 19 May 2021 19:21:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

You would think that!

At least it doesn't even claim to be 100% effective according to the report.

chris.packham  
#6 Posted : 20 May 2021 06:03:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Take a look at: https://www.hse.gov.uk/coronavirus/disinfecting-premises-during-coronavirus-outbreak.htm#risks

Neither our own HSE nor the WHO approve of this system for very sound reasons. 

chris.packham  
#7 Posted : 20 May 2021 06:17:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

The following is an extract from a SAGE document:

'Spray booth type devices for decontaminating people are not recommended. They are unlikely to be effective against the virus and have serious health impact and safety concerns. SARS-CoV-2 transmission is usually through a result of exhaled virus or via the hands, so even where a person who is infected with COVID-19 has passed through a whole-body disinfection system/device, as soon as they breathe, speak, cough or sneeze they can still spread the virus to others (high confidence).'

stevedm  
#8 Posted : 20 May 2021 06:20:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7315945/

Used in the cleanroom medical environment - but not people fogging ever...

We have used it for hazardous area and bioterror response - big paper in 2014 on the subject but looked at all methods for paramedic response (not UK)

but interestingly one of the suggestions when you have skin contact with this is to wash with soap and water...and eye contact rinse for 15 min....and respiratory - well asthmatics watch out it could bring on an attack..but of course you will be wearing a mask right?... :)

CptBeaky  
#9 Posted : 20 May 2021 07:11:39(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
CptBeaky

As an asthmatic whose main trigger is synthetic smells in cleaning products, I think if I saw one of these I would refuse to go in. The idea of me coughing and wheezing on the other side does not fill me with confidence that they actually stop the spread of germs.

John Murray  
#10 Posted : 20 May 2021 07:32:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

....which takes us back to POTUS45 and his "injecting bleach" remedy/comedy.....except you now inhale it...sorta

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biker1 on 20/05/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#11 Posted : 20 May 2021 08:01:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

It just beggars belief that anyone could think that exposing people to a mist of disinfectant is a good idea, or indeed that it would accomplish anything with respects to COVID. Echoes of Trump certainly.

John Murray  
#12 Posted : 20 May 2021 08:40:54(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
John Murray

This doesn't sound good......

"The production of hypochlorous acid (HOCl) by the myeloperoxidase-H2O2-Cl- system of phagocytes plays a vital role in the ability of these cells to kill a wide range of pathogens. However, the generation of a potent oxidant is not without risk to the host, and there is evidence that HOCl contributes to the tissue injury associated with inflammation"

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11327319/

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CptBeaky on 20/05/2021(UTC)
chris.packham  
#13 Posted : 20 May 2021 11:30:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Just consider for a moment what happens when someone walks through the booth. The disinfectant is absorbed into clothing where its effectiveness is momentary and pointless. It only contacts the person on exposed skin. Transmission is generally by the hands contacting the face. How much of the hands will actually received the disinfectant? Other parts of the skin, e.g. face are more sensitive to any foreign chemical but not a normal route of transmission. Once past the booth the person can easily emit the virus into the air by talking, sneezing etc. So what purpose, other than exposing the individual to an potentially harmful substance, has the booth served? 

The whole topic of disinfection as part of the SARS-CoV-2 management system is complex and needs to be properly thought through, something that those promoting the fogging booths appear not to have done.

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
biker1 on 20/05/2021(UTC)
craigroberts76  
#14 Posted : 20 May 2021 12:47:00(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
craigroberts76

wash hands, increase air flow, social distance.... sorted

thanks 1 user thanked craigroberts76 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/05/2021(UTC)
Gerry Knowles  
#15 Posted : 20 May 2021 14:44:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Gerry Knowles

I am not surprised that someone out there would try and sell this system, we after all in uncharted times and the owners of venues both large and small will look for any solution that may encourage customers to come in.  There were always be shady characters out to make the a fast buck.  Anyone want to try out my anti covid left handed widget spanner the perfect tool for opening snake oil cans!!!!

thanks 1 user thanked Gerry Knowles for this useful post.
biker1 on 20/05/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#16 Posted : 20 May 2021 15:54:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

Unfortunately, there are a lot of gullible people out there. Consider the people who died or were hospitalised in the USA who tried Trump's idea of injecting or imbibing disinfectant. Common sense should have told everyone that it was not a good idea, but you know what they say about common sense.

chris.packham  
#17 Posted : 20 May 2021 16:06:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

I know what Prof. Brian Cox wrote about common sense: ‘Common sense is completely worthless and irrelevant when contemplating reality.’ – from Human Universe. Also: ‘The really difficult thing is to learn not to trust what we might like to think of as common sense.’ – from Why does E=MC2?

This is particularly relevant for me when dealing with the interaction between skin and the working environment. What may appear logical often does not match what the science is telling us.

Adams29600  
#18 Posted : 27 May 2021 13:22:31(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Adams29600

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

It just beggars belief that anyone could think that exposing people to a mist of disinfectant is a good idea, or indeed that it would accomplish anything with respects to COVID. Echoes of Trump certainly.

Its been done before.

During the Foot and mouth (2007) my wife and I holidayed in Ireland. On arrival at Dunloghaire, they insisted we ride our motorcycles through the disinfectant spray. (We were given the option of turning round and getting back on the ferry). Despite visors down, hold your breath and scoot through quickly, the wife still got a lungfull and it was good hour before she was able to continue riding!

thanks 1 user thanked Adams29600 for this useful post.
aud on 27/05/2021(UTC)
biker1  
#19 Posted : 28 May 2021 10:28:22(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
biker1

I'm surprised someone is not suggesting the human equivalent of a sheep dip. Oops, shouldn't give certain people out there ideas!

HSSnail  
#20 Posted : 28 May 2021 10:39:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: biker1 Go to Quoted Post

I'm surprised someone is not suggesting the human equivalent of a sheep dip. Oops, shouldn't give certain people out there ideas!

During foot and mouth I frequently had to take my car through disinfectant troughs and my wellies - but never my whole body. We also visited the Netherlands at that time where we were all stopped leaving the ferry and serched for dairy products - we must have looked like international chocolate smugglers! (thank crunchy its Friday as they say!)

Edited by user 28 May 2021 10:40:46(UTC)  | Reason: spotted a spelling mistake - but probably missed 2 more!

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