Hi all. 

I have a query about radio controlled cranes in a workplace. I once trained on them many years ago and seemed to remember that the control unit must be kept safe when not in use. This is to prevent unauthorised use. We actually used a castel key system and a boxed up arrangement for the contoller. I would like to know if there is anything in legislation (PUWER or otherwise) to confirm either way that these control units must be kept so. I know that there are radio controlled locomotives and various items of mining equipment that can be radio controlled, so there must be something somewhere.

Cheers

Why would you want to do this anyway? Is your workforce so untrustworthy? I think you are seeing a risk where there isn't one. In nearly 40yrs of being of being in the engineering sector I can't readily think of any incidents relating to unauthourised use of cranes.

Must admit that one caused quite a few engineering headaches over the years at various sites and various powered hoists.

We had people selling clips that held the E-Stop buttons pushed home, we had split plastic boxes offered that shrouded the controller, we had metal lock boxes that fastened to the wall.

Then one bright "spark" pointed out that if you isolated the power supply as part of a lock out tag out system it didn't matter who had the controller nor what they were doing with it as there was no power to move the crane.

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit

Then one bright "spark" pointed out that if you isolated the power supply as part of a lock out tag out system it didn't matter who had the controller nor what they were doing with it as there was no power to move the crane.

Thats what we do

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

PUWER

Regulation 28 Self-propelled work equipment

Every employer shall ensure that, where self-propelled work equipment may, while in motion, involve risk to the safety of persons—

(a) it has facilities for preventing its being started by an unauthorised person;

Dont like posting regs - but sometimes they just say it all

A gantry crane in a factory is not self-propelled work equipment though,

Self-propelled needs a means of power independent to the electrical supply of the building.

Taken from the ACOP

Self-propelled mobile work equipment

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

PUWER Regulation 28 Self-propelled work equipment Every employer shall ensure that, where self-propelled work equipment may, while in motion, involve risk to the safety of persons— (a) it has facilities for preventing its being started by an unauthorised person; Dont like posting regs - but sometimes they just say it all

A gantry crane in a factory is not self-propelled work equipment though,Self-propelled needs a means of power independent to the electrical supply of the building.

Taken from the ACOP Self-propelled mobile work equipment 237 Self-propelled mobile work equipment is work equipment which is propelled by its own motor or mechanism. The motor or mechanism may be powered by energy generated on the mobile work equipment itself, for example by an internal combustion engine, or through connection to a remote power source, such as an electric cable, electric induction or hydraulic line.

Edited by user 21 May 2021 20:10:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

We have used radio control tyre gantry cranes similar to the ones seen here (just smaller to fit the facfory)

https://www.mph-cranes.com/our-product/rubber-tyred-gantry-crane/

and being used in and out of the factory gas powered like an FLT.

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

PUWER Regulation 28 Self-propelled work equipment Every employer shall ensure that, where self-propelled work equipment may, while in motion, involve risk to the safety of persons— (a) it has facilities for preventing its being started by an unauthorised person; Dont like posting regs - but sometimes they just say it all

A gantry crane in a factory is not self-propelled work equipment though,Self-propelled needs a means of power independent to the electrical supply of the building.

Taken from the ACOP Self-propelled mobile work equipment 237 Self-propelled mobile work equipment is work equipment which is propelled by its own motor or mechanism. The motor or mechanism may be powered by energy generated on the mobile work equipment itself, for example by an internal combustion engine, or through connection to a remote power source, such as an electric cable, electric induction or hydraulic line.

Totally irrelevant and does not apply in any way to a gantry crane in a factory. Regulations 25-30 are for mobile work equipment. A gantry crane is not mobile work equipment, it is fixed in place and travels only within the confines of the rails within the building.

From ACOP/Guidance

For the purposes of PUWER regulations 25–30, mobile work equipment is any work equipment which carries out work while it is travelling or which travels between different locations where it is used to carry out work. Such equipment would normally be moved on, for example wheels, tracks, rollers, skids etc. Mobile work equipment may be self-propelled, towed or remote controlled and may incorporate attachments.

We find these easy to manage.

Ours are mains powered with an isolator switch on the wall. The design of the switch allows a padlock to be fitted.

Therefore when not in use, these are isolated with a padlock to prevent unauthorised use, with the padlock keys managed by the team leader. No need to lock away controllers.

Monitoring and behavioural audits check that this is being correctly managed.

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard

PUWER Regulation 28 Self-propelled work equipment Every employer shall ensure that, where self-propelled work equipment may, while in motion, involve risk to the safety of persons— (a) it has facilities for preventing its being started by an unauthorised person; Dont like posting regs - but sometimes they just say it all

A gantry crane in a factory is not self-propelled work equipment though,Self-propelled needs a means of power independent to the electrical supply of the building.

Taken from the ACOP Self-propelled mobile work equipment 237 Self-propelled mobile work equipment is work equipment which is propelled by its own motor or mechanism. The motor or mechanism may be powered by energy generated on the mobile work equipment itself, for example by an internal combustion engine, or through connection to a remote power source, such as an electric cable, electric induction or hydraulic line.

Totally irrelevant and does not apply in any way to a gantry crane in a factory. Regulations 25-30 are for mobile work equipment. A gantry crane is not mobile work equipment, it is fixed in place and travels only within the confines of the rails within the building.

From ACOP/Guidance

For the purposes of PUWER regulations 25–30, mobile work equipment is any work equipment which carries out work while it is travelling or which travels between different locations where it is used to carry out work. Such equipment would normally be moved on, for example wheels, tracks, rollers, skids etc. Mobile work equipment may be self-propelled, towed or remote controlled and may incorporate attachments.

I see nothing about it it being exempt "if confined to rails" still "Traveling" - but then it does not define location. For me that could be part of a large wharehouse not just between geographical locations. Reguradless of this if someone is injured when such equipment is being used by an unortharised person, the enforcer will just hit you with general duties.

You stick with the definitions you want, and I'll stick to what the product legislation and product standards define these machines as.

It's up to you.

I know which product standards and legislation these different kinds of machines would be assessed to and what I have assessed them to, and these assessments have been put in front of HSE for various different reasons, with no come back on us whatsoever.

So we will have to agree to disagree.

However, I know which camp I am going to stay in, and that is not the one that you are in, for vary valid legal and engineering reasons, based on sound engineering judgement and my experience of these machines.