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hmfernandez81@gmail.com  
#1 Posted : 12 June 2021 10:00:15(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
hmfernandez81@gmail.com

Good Morning.

I am spending time to understand a particular situation considering the CDM roles and duties but I cannot find a solution.

Imagine this hypotesis:

There is a construction project, as usual with: a Client, PD, appointed  PC and Contractors, of course with their own duties under CDM 2015: CPP, F10, RAMS, H&S arrangements...

The Client wants to carry out some work within the CDM area, but this work is out of the scope of the PC. The client  choose a contractor for this task, with their own contract, design... 

I think that the PC should be still the same, because the works are being carried out within its CDM area, but: who is the contractor? The client as employer should have a double-role, client plus contractor? The Client should assume the role of PC just for this work with specific CPP? The contractor choosen by the Client should be PC despite they work within  other CDM area?

I know is complicated, but CDM has not any explanation about this point.

Thanks in advance.

Regards.

Regards.

peter gotch  
#2 Posted : 12 June 2021 12:30:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi HMF

The scenario you pose is not particularly complicated and it's quite common, not only in situations similar to that you describe but many others where two "projects" interface and it's certainly not new!

As example the first guidance on CDM Client duties published by the Construction Industry Research and Information Association (CIRIA Report 172) in 1998 specifically identified the common scenario of infrastructure developments that necessitate utilities works that are procured by others - in such a situation much of the utility works would be off the main site but with a need for coordination when projects interface. 

Up to the Client to decide whether these additional works involve "construction work", thence such that CDM applies, and then to what extent CDM would apply to this different "project" [with both terms in quotes as defined in CDM].

Let's assume for a minute that the Client's different project means that CDM applies in full, though this doesn't actually matter much as you need to have regard to legislation whose roots are superior to CDM, ie the Management Regulations - see below.

They need to appoint a PD and PC, and the duties of Client, PD, PC, Designers and Contractors apply in exactly the same way as for the "project" with which you are involved.

The Client could then have two PCs working on the same site simultaneously or decide that one or other takes the lead.

If they want the PC for your project to do that, then the PC might reasonably want to be paid for something they have not (presumably) priced for - that's an issue for the Contract, not one of criminal law.

If they want the PC for these new works (which could of course be the Client themselves) to take the lead then they can still expect the PC for the main works to ask for more money to cater for the inconvenience etc.

Nothing in CDM says that you cannot have more than one of anything whether that be "project", "PC" etc.

If the Client decides not to make one or other PC the lead then they can expect conflict.

But this is dealt with by the provisions of the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 which requires cooperation between all the relevant parties.

In simple terms, that means making sure that everyone is aware of who is in charge of what and when. The Client could example determine that these new works should be done in a site within a site. So that the PC for the new works would be in charge of that area for the time and to the extent needed for them to do their work. If the PC for the main works needed to send people in, they would have to abide by the other PC's reasonable rules and directions.

Just needs people to sit down and work out the details of how this would work.

Good luck, Peter

firesafety101  
#3 Posted : 13 June 2021 10:11:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

I have many experiences of working for a shopfitting contractor who was fitting out a new store on a retail park, part of which was under construction.

The PC for the retail park project had their security which had to be gone through before accessing our project site and once inside our site it was the responsibility of our PC Site Foreman.  The PC for the retail park left us alone with only essential communications.

mike350  
#4 Posted : 16 June 2021 06:57:39(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
mike350

As fire safety said, this is a pretty regular occurence and should be simple to manage.

The client is creating an area within an area and is responsible for ensuring that the "inner" area complies if appropriate with the provisions of CDM. That includes clearly identifying where one area ends and the other starts and anyone transiting through one area to the other must be inducted and made aware of the potential risks involved.

Each PC is responsible for the safety of their own area and those passing through it. I'd also suggest that each PC as a courtesy invites the other to their progress meetings to make sure that they are each aware of any changes or work starting that might affect them.

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