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SammyK  
#1 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:19:21(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

Hi All, 

Any advice given will be greatly appreciated as always.

Is anyone able to advise whether it is a legal requirement to have a fire alarm system installed in a business? we only have call points. During the day when the business is occupied, if there is a fire seen by someone great! however nothing once the building is closed or if the fire starts in a void space etc. The HSE say ' adequate and appropriate fire safety measures to be in place to minimise the risk of injury or loss of life in the event of a fire'. 

Thank you! Sammy  

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:30:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Call points attached to.... an alarm system?

Are you acually asking if it is a requirement to have a detection system (possibly linked to an alarm or monitoring service)?

Your specific industry would be guidance as to whether such a device were required

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:30:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Call points attached to.... an alarm system?

Are you acually asking if it is a requirement to have a detection system (possibly linked to an alarm or monitoring service)?

Your specific industry would be guidance as to whether such a device were required

SammyK  
#4 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:36:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
SammyK

we have an alarm system that works when the call point is set off, we don't however have a fire/smoke detection system- is this a legal requirement in a business? (factory setting with showrooms and offices). 

Kate  
#5 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:38:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The legal requirements for most fire precautions are that you must have them "where necessary".

You can only rely on risk assessment, guidance or, in the last resort, enforcement notices, to tell whether or not they are "necessary" in your case and therefore whether they are legally required.

The law is in no help in this regard at all.

Kate  
#6 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:42:51(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
SammyK on 16/07/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#7 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:50:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The Building Regulations Approved Document B2 has this to say on Fire detection and alarm systems: 1.3 Other than for some small buildings/premises, an electrically operated fire alarm system should be provided. In some situations, the alarm should be operated by a fire detection system. The detailed specification should be compatible with the fire strategy for the building. NOTE: The term ‘fire alarm system’ describes the combination of components for giving an audible and/or other perceptible warning of fire. NOTE: In this document, the term ‘fire detection system’ describes any type of automatic sensor network and associated control and indicating equipment. Sensors may be sensitive to smoke, heat, gaseous combustion products or radiation. Automatic sprinkler systems can also be used to operate a fire alarm system. 1.4 In ‘residential (institutional)’ and ‘residential (other)’ occupancies (purpose groups 2(a) and 2(b)), automatic fire detection and alarms should be provided. 1.5 Automatic fire detection and alarm systems should be provided in non-residential occupancies where a fire could break out in an unoccupied part of the premises (e.g. a storage area or a part of the building that is not visited on a regular basis) and prejudice the means of escape from occupied part(s) of the premises. 1.6 Automatic fire detection will also be necessary where fire protection systems, such as pressure differential systems or door releases, need to operate automatically. 1.7 Every building design should be assessed individually. General guidance on the category of fire detection system that may need to be provided within a building can be found in Table A1 of BS 5839-1.

Sorry I don't have a copy of BS 5839-1

Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:50:14(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The Building Regulations Approved Document B2 has this to say on Fire detection and alarm systems: 1.3 Other than for some small buildings/premises, an electrically operated fire alarm system should be provided. In some situations, the alarm should be operated by a fire detection system. The detailed specification should be compatible with the fire strategy for the building. NOTE: The term ‘fire alarm system’ describes the combination of components for giving an audible and/or other perceptible warning of fire. NOTE: In this document, the term ‘fire detection system’ describes any type of automatic sensor network and associated control and indicating equipment. Sensors may be sensitive to smoke, heat, gaseous combustion products or radiation. Automatic sprinkler systems can also be used to operate a fire alarm system. 1.4 In ‘residential (institutional)’ and ‘residential (other)’ occupancies (purpose groups 2(a) and 2(b)), automatic fire detection and alarms should be provided. 1.5 Automatic fire detection and alarm systems should be provided in non-residential occupancies where a fire could break out in an unoccupied part of the premises (e.g. a storage area or a part of the building that is not visited on a regular basis) and prejudice the means of escape from occupied part(s) of the premises. 1.6 Automatic fire detection will also be necessary where fire protection systems, such as pressure differential systems or door releases, need to operate automatically. 1.7 Every building design should be assessed individually. General guidance on the category of fire detection system that may need to be provided within a building can be found in Table A1 of BS 5839-1.

Sorry I don't have a copy of BS 5839-1

A Kurdziel  
#9 Posted : 15 July 2021 14:54:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

isn't your insurer not a bit worried by this arrangement? 

Messey  
#10 Posted : 15 July 2021 20:55:02(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

A British Standard Category M fire alarm system comprises of just manual call points (with a control panel, back up battery supply and sounders) is a perfected acceptable means of raising the alarm in a low to moderate risk premises like a small office or shop.

Of course, the level of risk can only be determined by a fire risk assessment, but its not unreasonable for a moderately sized 4 story office buidlng to have a Cat M system 

Most fire alarm systems are designed for life safety reasons. That is to let people in the building know there is a fire so they can take action.  For these systems, there doesnt not need to be any part of the system designed to operate at night when the building is empty.

There is absolutely no need to bother your insurance company. It is the business's risk and not the insurance company's responsibility - if they want any special measures in term of AFD, they would have already told you!! 

 

thanks 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
SammyK on 16/07/2021(UTC)
Messey  
#11 Posted : 15 July 2021 20:58:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

A summary of BS5839-1 categories of life fire alarm systems

Category M – Manual fire alarm system

Manual fire alarm systems are the most basic. Employees must physically operate alarms manually on the discovery of fire to alert everyone else in the building to the danger.

Usually, manual fire alarm systems use breakable glass units installed strategically across the building, which then activates the premises-wide alarm system.

(Some manual systems, however, still rely on handbells or gongs if the premises are very small and don’t require more than one sounder to effectively sound the alarm throughout the premises.)

Category L1 – Maximum life protection automated fire alarm system

L1 maximum life protection automated fire alarm systems are the most comprehensive and feature multiple detectors in all parts of the building that a fire could start, including larger cupboards, roof spaces and voids.

The goal is to provide the earliest possible warning for occupants to ensure the preservation of life. The system must cover all areas of a building, with some minor exceptions, including small cupboards and lobbies.

Category L2 – Additional life protection automated fire alarm system

L2 alarm systems provide occupants of a building with advanced warning of the existence of a fire in another room.

Typically, this involves placing fire and smoke alarms in high-risk rooms and opening onto escape routes leading to fire exits. In small and medium-sized premises, L2 systems place fire detectors in areas where the risk of ignition is high, such as kitchens.

Category L3 – Standard life protection automated fire alarm system

Category L3 fire alarm systems – sometimes called standard life protection systems – feature alarms placed along all escape routes leading from the interior of the premises to fire exits.

The goal here is to ensure that all building occupants have sufficient warning to get out of the building before smoke, fire and toxic fumes begin impeding their exit. Unlike L2 systems, L3 systems do not have to place alarms close to high-risk sources of ignition.

Category L4 – Modest life protection automated fire alarm system

L4 systems only place detectors along escape routes such as hallways and stairwells and corresponding circulation areas, not individual rooms.

Businesses that use L4 systems usually operate in a low-risk environment where everyone can exit quickly in the event of a fire.

Ground floor offices, for instance, may only use L4 alarms in their entryways because staff can leave the building quickly.

These systems, however, are not suitable for multi-storey offices where it could take employees longer to escape via stairwells.

Category L5 – Localised life protection automated fire alarm system

L5 category alarms are a specific type of automated fire systems that tackles fire hazards in high-risk areas.

For example, a factory might install additional fire detection equipment in an area dedicated to welding because of the risk of spark ignition.

Conceptually, L5 alarms are different from other types of systems discussed so far. Conceivably, you could have a business operating an L4 system across its premises, but employing L5 in specific, high-risk rooms.

For instance, some companies might install fire detection equipment to L5 standards in a server room while leaving the rest of the building unchanged.

thanks 5 users thanked Messey for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 15/07/2021(UTC), RVThompson on 16/07/2021(UTC), SammyK on 16/07/2021(UTC), A Kurdziel on 16/07/2021(UTC), Kate on 16/07/2021(UTC)
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