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HSE Chris Wright  
#1 Posted : 09 July 2021 01:43:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
HSE Chris Wright

Evening all,

In recent years, Health and Safety as a profession has been separated into so many specialized functions, and in my opinion rightly so... 

- Process Safety

- Fire Safety

- Occupational Hygiene

- Occupational Health

- Facefit testers

- Machinery safety specialists 

Etc. Etc.

Unlike perhaps years gone by, I see a shift and see it becoming no longer feasible to be a standalone HSE consultant, sure there is still the ability to identify the needs of the client, however, being contracted to inform a client that they require other services outside your competencies is not good value in my opinion.

Do you see the general practitioner role fading out in the coming years?

chris.packham  
#2 Posted : 09 July 2021 06:51:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Chris - if we draw a comparison with what we find in general medicine, we have the GP and then the various specialities. Medicine is such a wide subject that no-one can claim to have detailed knowledge of every sector. After all, if I visited my own GP (who is excellent) I would fully expect him to refer me to a cardiologist if he felt the chest problem was outside his area of competence. In my view the same applies to health and safety. It is such a broad topic and individual aspects can be so complex that specialisation is the only way to ensure that adequate (or preferably high) standards can be achieved. The question is how does the generalist H+S adviser recognise where his competence is no longer adequate and specialist support is needed. 

My personal view is that far too much attention is given to regulatory compliance and not nearly sufficient to achieving a high standard that matches the particular circumstances we are dealing with at the time, thus providing the optimum in workplace health and safety standards. Regulations can only provide a general approach and cannot cover all the many different variations that can exist in any one aspect. This is particularly the case in my own specialised field where the regulations, such as they are, certainly do not cover in any detail the many variations and complexities that I encounter. An example is the selection and use of gloves for chemical protection. The regulations are so vague and often misleading that it is not surprising that I so often find gloves being used that are simply not providing the level of protection needed and where regulations are of no practical help at all.

In my own field (in which I have been active for over 40 years) I still consider myself to be a generalist who may seek the support from time to time of a different specialist (toxicologist, occupational hygienist, dermatologist, industrial chemist, biologist, etc.)

So yes, there has to be a case for a generalist in health and safety, but one who recognises this and has made it clear to the client (employer) that, as with medicine, specialist help may be needed from time to time.

thanks 1 user thanked chris.packham for this useful post.
Wailes900134 on 09/07/2021(UTC)
Ian Bell2  
#3 Posted : 09 July 2021 10:54:36(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Ian Bell2

Hopefully 12, 17, 8, 29, 44. 21 come out of the machine on Saturday night, then I can quite this h&s malarky.

PS you can't use the same numbers

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 11 July 2021 10:21:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Chris - I don't think there is much danger that a sensible client is unlikely to recognise that there are going to be limits to the competence of any consultant they employ (in any discipline).

In contrast they might object if the consultant they have taken on has oversold their competence and says they need to refer things to a specialist when what they have presented would indicate that they could cover X, Y or Z.

Now it might be that the CV says they have done X-ish, Y-ish and Z-ish. Then the question for both client and consultant is whether the consultant then stretches their experience by doing something new as just part of continuous development or is crossing a line that they shouldn't be crossing.

chris.packham  
#5 Posted : 11 July 2021 11:58:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris.packham

Peter - isn't that always the unanswerable question. How does one recognise that one is no longer competent in a specific situation? Of course, when one tries and its goes wrong the lack of competence becomes clear, but before? I frequently encounter this in my particular field, simply because the, perhaps generally highly qualified, person simply does not realise the complexity of what they are attempting to deal with and assume that what appears logical to them does not coincide with the science they know nothing about. I alway try to keep in mind what Prof. Brian Cox wrote in his book 'Human Universe': 'Common sense is worthless and irrelevant when contemplating reality.' In my field very relevant.

peter gotch  
#6 Posted : 11 July 2021 12:26:44(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Chris P (rather than Chris W!) - absolutely!

If the client pays X unit per hour, then they can expect a level of service appropriate to that price tag.

If the client pays double that, then they are entitled to expect BOTH that their consultant has either a wider knowledge base OR specific specialisms that they are looking for AND might reasonably expect that their consultant is better equipped to recognise the limits of their competence, including when their knowledge base may have been eroded, for various reasons including technological advances and improved understanding of risks.

P

stevedm  
#7 Posted : 16 July 2021 07:40:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

What I have seen is the amiount of  'Google' safety advisors has increased....and the use of trolling to shount down the competent advisors,.

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