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hardworkingdude  
#1 Posted : 10 July 2021 16:28:12(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hardworkingdude

Hi all, so the business I work for are making a one off use of a scissor lift/cherry picker. My advice is that the operator needs to be fully trained to use the equipment and a risk assessment needs to take place. The task is relatively straightforward albeit it includes work from height. Thinking of propertionality, would the business be required to send someone on a comprehensive training course to carry out one task (it's being hired) or would a review of the manual and a risk assessment suffice? Thanks for your help
Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 10 July 2021 19:29:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

No, proprotionality would dictate that if this truly was a one off you would specifically hire a trained operative to operate the equipment to undertake the task. Easier to tell a trained operator what outcome you require rather than hoping your employee can pick up the skills to operate the equipment.

Just watching a programme on ship wreck treasure diving - woud you hire a professional diver or give one of your employees a hired scuba kit with brief instruction?

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kate on 12/07/2021(UTC), Kate on 12/07/2021(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 10 July 2021 19:29:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

No, proprotionality would dictate that if this truly was a one off you would specifically hire a trained operative to operate the equipment to undertake the task. Easier to tell a trained operator what outcome you require rather than hoping your employee can pick up the skills to operate the equipment.

Just watching a programme on ship wreck treasure diving - woud you hire a professional diver or give one of your employees a hired scuba kit with brief instruction?

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
Kate on 12/07/2021(UTC), Kate on 12/07/2021(UTC)
hardworkingdude  
#4 Posted : 10 July 2021 20:27:58(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
hardworkingdude

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
No, proprotionality would dictate that if this truly was a one off you would specifically hire a trained operative to operate the equipment to undertake the task. Easier to tell a trained operator what outcome you require rather than hoping your employee can pick up the skills to operate the equipment.Just watching a programme on ship wreck treasure diving - woud you hire a professional diver or give one of your employees a hired scuba kit with briefinstruction?
If the scuba dive was 1 meter below the surface for half an hour?
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 10 July 2021 21:03:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why do you think insurers have so many travel insurance exceptions for anything other than sitting on a beach?

The recent "mexico crocodile incident" came from an inexperienced "guide" (aka instructor)

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 10 July 2021 21:03:47(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Why do you think insurers have so many travel insurance exceptions for anything other than sitting on a beach?

The recent "mexico crocodile incident" came from an inexperienced "guide" (aka instructor)

peter gotch  
#7 Posted : 11 July 2021 10:08:17(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

hardworkingdude - this is one of those QQ where if you argued the case one way, I could argue it in the opposite direction and vice-versa.

Your user profile indicates that you are in England so the Work at Height Regs would apply. These don't prescribe exactly what training is required to use a scissor lift and as you indicate some proportionality should be taken into account in working out what is reasonably practicable.

You don't say what the simple task is but it might well be that hiring in someone who has an IPAF training certificate might also mean getting in someone who can do the task more efficiently and more effectively than getting one of your own staff to do it.

Add in the need to consider the suitability for your worker(s) to work at heights and various other issues and your risk assessment starts to become a drawn out affair. AND if you were to apply an hourly rate to each of those involved in developing a risk assessment to justify getting the work done by people who have only read the manual (and to the time they take to do that), it would soon be cheaper to hire someone in (unless your workforce are so underemployed that there is no "opportunity cost" - the cost of what they could be doing instead! - though against that you could calculate the benefit of your staff getting some upskilling).

HSSnail  
#8 Posted : 12 July 2021 11:20:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: hardworkingdude Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
No, proprotionality would dictate that if this truly was a one off you would specifically hire a trained operative to operate the equipment to undertake the task. Easier to tell a trained operator what outcome you require rather than hoping your employee can pick up the skills to operate the equipment.Just watching a programme on ship wreck treasure diving - woud you hire a professional diver or give one of your employees a hired scuba kit with briefinstruction?

If the scuba dive was 1 meter below the surface for half an hour?

As an ex SCUBA instructor and an inspector Looking at the "Diving at Work regulations" yes i would definately use a trained operative. 3 feet is quite deep enough to drown someone who does not understand the safe use of the equipment thank you very much.

Edited by user 12 July 2021 11:39:07(UTC)  | Reason: Spelling so bad even i could spot it!

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
Roundtuit on 12/07/2021(UTC)
JohnW  
#9 Posted : 12 July 2021 14:53:31(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
JohnW

Hardworkingdude, while considering all the good advice above, consider what would be the consequences - in court - after an accident caused serious injury to your untrained operator. In court the first question you might be asked……
firesafety101  
#10 Posted : 12 July 2021 20:11:41(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

Can we be informed about the one off job please.

firesafety101  
#11 Posted : 12 July 2021 22:06:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
firesafety101

By the way a MEWP (scisser lift) and Cherry Picker are not the same.

paul reynolds  
#12 Posted : 13 July 2021 07:10:41(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
paul reynolds

Hire machine & competent operator, however I am sue that they will expect you to compile the risk assessment.

HSSnail  
#13 Posted : 13 July 2021 07:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: firesafety101 Go to Quoted Post

By the way a MEWP (scisser lift) and Cherry Picker are not the same.

 MEWP is a Mobile Elevating Work Platform

such as

a vertical "scissor" Lift

self propelled Boom (Cherry Picker)

Vehicle mouinted Boom

trailor mounted boom

You may find this document useful https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/geis6.pdf

The selection, management and use of mobile elevating work platforms

Edited by user 13 July 2021 08:53:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Kate  
#14 Posted : 13 July 2021 14:16:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Or more succintly, a cherry picker is a type of MEWP.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
HSSnail on 20/07/2021(UTC)
HSSnail  
#15 Posted : 20 July 2021 07:46:24(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

Or more succintly, a cherry picker is a type of MEWP.

I have been accused of many things over the years Kate but you can probably guess being succint is not one of them.

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
peter gotch on 20/07/2021(UTC)
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