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bigpub  
#1 Posted : 19 July 2021 07:27:05(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

Good morning folks,

A person suffers whip lash following a taxi ride. They are off work for more than 7 days. Is this reporable?

I know most RTC events are not reportable. But is this case due to over 7 days away.

Thanks

Kate  
#2 Posted : 19 July 2021 08:59:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

If it's purely a road traffic accident (which this sounds like) and not for example to do with loading and unloading activities, then it's not RIDDOR reportable whatever the consequences.

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 19 July 2021 09:49:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

If they were testing a taxi on a test track, then yes it would be a RIDDOR but if happened on the public highway, then no, it's not a RIDDOR. stop

bigpub  
#4 Posted : 19 July 2021 11:15:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

So the 7 day absence is forgotten?
Roundtuit  
#5 Posted : 19 July 2021 11:58:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The seven day is not applicable to the situation described for the passenger (it is the driver who is at work).

Roundtuit  
#6 Posted : 19 July 2021 11:58:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

The seven day is not applicable to the situation described for the passenger (it is the driver who is at work).

A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 19 July 2021 12:01:15(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

RIDDOR says Reg 4(2) “ Where any person at work is incapacitated for routine work for more than seven consecutive days (excluding the day of the accident) because of an injury resulting from an accident arising out of or in connection with that work, …”

HSE guidance states that:

The fact that there is an accident at work premises does not, in itself, mean that the accident is work-related – the work activity itself must contribute to the accident. An accident is 'work-related' if any of the following played a significant role:

  • the way the work was carried out.
  • any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or
  • the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened.”

 

Reg 14 of RIDDOR states that:

(3) Where the injury or death of a person arises out of or in connection with the movement of a vehicle on a road, the requirements of regulations 4, 5, 6 and 12(1)(b) do not apply, unless that person:

  1. was engaged in work connected with the loading or unloading of any article or substance onto or off the vehicle at the time of the accident, or was injured or killed by the activities of another person who was so engaged; or

So it is not a work related accident and does not need to be reported under RIDDOR; recorded and investigated internally but the HSE are not that bothered.

 

Kate  
#8 Posted : 19 July 2021 20:36:12(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

The 7 day absence is not forgotten.  It is just outside the scope of RIDDOR, same as if someone had a 7 day absence because they had an accident while ice-skating (assuming that ice-skating isn't part of their work).

bigpub  
#9 Posted : 20 July 2021 08:01:49(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

Yes, but the person (a nurse) was at work esccorting a service user.

Kate  
#10 Posted : 20 July 2021 08:24:08(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Yes, sorry, I was just fantasising about the ice skating.

It is outside the scope of RIDDOR because road traffic collisions while driving or being driven on public roads are excluded from RIDDOR.

thanks 2 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/07/2021(UTC), Evans38004 on 20/07/2021(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 20 July 2021 08:44:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

BigPub,  an accident like this even involving an employee, is simply outside the scope of RIDDOR. The purpose of RIDDOR is twofold: 1) it enables the HSE to collect data on workplace accidents to both demonstrate the effectiveness of its policies and to benchmark its efforts against international standards set by the ILO

 2) it is used to identify possible breaches of H&S law which it can investigate further.

RTC etc do not feature in any of this. The police are the lead agency for investigations under Road traffic laws etc.  In this case what would the HSE be interested? Who would they investigate and what would they be expected to do to follow up the investigation.

A couple of years ago, on the forum, we had a lot of questions about why the HSE were not involved in environmental issues; the answer is simply it was not their responsibility  in law.  This is similar; not their bag.

 

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
Evans38004 on 20/07/2021(UTC)
peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 20 July 2021 10:52:23(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

BigPub

Just because it's outside the scope of RIDDOR doesn't mean that it's not outside the scope of all health and safety legislation including, in particular, the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974.

So, work-related accidents during travel are recognised as a key focus for many employers. Your case involving a nurse and service user is an example of a relatively high risk scenario, where an organisation has to exercise its duty of care to its employee and to the service user.

Hence, just because it's not RIDDOR-reportable doesn't mean that it isn't worth recognising - many organisations would count it in their accident stats (though usually under a separate category to the RIDDORs) - and investigating.

It's possible that there might have been measures that were "reasonably practicable" to prevent this injury. Perhaps equally possible that there were no such measures. But if you don't do at least a rudimentary investigation you will never know.

MrBrightside  
#13 Posted : 20 July 2021 12:33:50(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
MrBrightside

Hi,

As others have stated, not a RIDDOR due to it being an RTC/I. Would only have been a RIDDOR if your employee had been hit by a vehicle whilst unloading etc the grey area is if your employee had been driving and the crash was due fatigue and a few other reasons.

What would you even investigate and what controls would you put in place to stop it happening again? You have no control over the Taxi Driver, the road, the taxi or other road users.

Kate  
#14 Posted : 20 July 2021 12:41:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

You may have control over when and how your employees travel, whether they put pressure on the driver to speed up,  whether they put their seat belts on, whether they or your service users distract the taxi driver, which taxi firms you use, and a whole range of other factors that may or may not be relevant in any particular case, something you won't know unless you investigate.

chris42  
#15 Posted : 20 July 2021 13:19:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Originally Posted by: Kate Go to Quoted Post

You may have control over when and how your employees travel, whether they put pressure on the driver to speed up,  whether they put their seat belts on, whether they or your service users distract the taxi driver, which taxi firms you use, and a whole range of other factors that may or may not be relevant in any particular case, something you won't know unless you investigate.

Or if a taxi is the correct transportation method for the particular person the nurse was helping transport.

However not RIDDOR as it does not meet the criteria, but worthy of investigation.

Chris

A Kurdziel  
#16 Posted : 20 July 2021 14:53:21(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What you can control is always the issue in cases like this. We have not been told how the person suffered the whiplash. Did the taxi break suddenly? Why did it break? Was the driver at fault? If so, are you confident that you chose the best firm to provide the service? Is it, sort of business where the drivers are desperate to make as many trip as possible so they drive do fast and literally cut corners?

If you are part of the NHS, why was patient transport not available?  Do they charge “too much”?

Somethings you have no control over, like the state of the road or the action of other drivers (another reason why the HSE want to avoid this area of responsibility). There are loads of questions to ask but where its RIDDOR or not is not part of it.

Years ago, when I was working for a government agency, we had a potential firearms incident. It was not a RIDDOR despite several enquiries from senior managers. It was investigated thoroughly and at length and action taken to make sure it never happened again. The same week a length of pipework used to distribute compressed air around the site failed. There was no risk to anybody but it was a failure of a pressure system and as such RIDDOR reportable, under the regulations. The investigation for that incident lead to a simple swift conclusion: the pipefitter was useless and he and his company was not allowed back on site. RIDDOR has nothing to do with what you and I might regard as the seriousness of the incident. It is just a list of what you must do.

 

bigpub  
#17 Posted : 21 July 2021 08:08:19(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
bigpub

I am going to ask lots of questions regarding this. Thanks folks

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