Hi all,

I hope you can help… I'm getting pressure from my management team to include COVID vaccination status as a control measure in reducing the risk of transmitting the virus in our officers. I believe the existing control measures in place, reduce the risk to an acceptable level, Therefore cannot see how vaccination status will strengthen this assessment.

my question is do any of you who work in an office environment use vaccination status as a control measure in your risk assessments. And if you do how do you monitor the effectiveness of this control?

What a set of morooons.

The vaccines do not stop someone who has been vaccinated catching Covid

The vaccines do not stop someone who has been vaccinated transmitting Covid

At best they reduce the effect of the symptoms upon the individual who has had the vaccinations

The mutations are becoming more transmissible

So two futile and pointless exercises for the workplace, a location attended 40 out of 168 hours - vaccinations and vaccine status.

Probably why the devolved assemblies are not getting rid of care workers based on herd mentality "pseudo-science".

Now if the vaccinations stopped acquistion / transmission they may have a point - as it stands they do not.

Like most one colleague completed their vaccinations a couple of months ago

They attended a group meeting in the office early last week and by Friday they were informing everyone they had received a positive PCR test during the week

Still awaiting confirmation from all attendees as to their current individual "Covid" status

Best thing is we did not specifically meet with others permanently working from the office

If the office safety had been based upon vaccine status......

Instead it is still temperature checking, social distancing, hygiene and face coverings

This should be a part of legal compliance, as in many countries this is mandatory.

Originally Posted by: Waqas9994

This should be a part of legal compliance, as in many countries this is mandatory.

Quite a bold statement - do you have any examples?

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Waqas9994

This should be a part of legal compliance, as in many countries this is mandatory.

Quite a bold statement - do you have any examples?

We have offices where it is almost required to be vaccinated.  For example, in Abu Dhabi there has been some quite strong 'guidance' to employers that they should require staff attending a place of work to be vaccinated, and it is (at least, has been, I'm not 100% certain it still applies today) a legal requirement that if you are not vacinated you need to have (and pay for) a PCR test weekly.  The employer gets fined if the employees don't comply with the test requirements, leading employers to be quite keen on mandating vaccination.

Vaccinatiuon is mandatory in certain sectors in a number of countires, I believe (France has recently sacked some healthcare workers, for example - that was in the news).

Just because the  control is mentioned in a risk assessment des not mean that it is a legal requirement. The owner of the “Spaced Out Coffee Shop and Bong Emporium” may write that  all of his employees need to wear pointy hats covered in foil in his risk assessment to protect them from “Bad Vibes” .

How do you deal with those who cannot (rather than choose not)?

As Kate has said vaccination is not in H&S terms, a control because,   this not a health and safety mater but rather a public health matter . The driver for vaccination is not protecting the individual (which is what Occupational H&S is about) but about protecting the wider community and the health system in particular. Vaccinations have never been mandated  until now, when the new act comes into and that will only apply to health care settings.   Even while working in higher containment level labs the jabs were only ever recommend, not mandated, as the HSE took the line that vaccination is the last line of defence and other measures should be used first. I have been told that in some places abroad, a heavy emphasis is placed on vaccinations rather than safe systems of work. Not the approach we have taken here in the UK.

There are many issues with  using vaccinations as  a “control” which means that they can not be relied upon and what’s the point of control that cannot be relied upon.

https://www.rsmuk.com/ideas-and-insights/legal/coronavirus-compulsory-vaccination-the-employment-legal-issues

The new regulations requiring care home staff to be vaccinated has been challenged on grounds that it contravenes section 45E of the Public Health (Control of Disease Act) 1984. This Act says that whilst regulations can be made to stop the threat of infection or contamination, they may not include provision requiring a person to undergo medical treatment - including vaccination. This is an interesting development, and it is possible that formal judicial review proceedings challenging the new regulations will follow. 

Sorry not union but a legal briefing

Originally Posted by: N Hancock

Lets hope not, I feel that would be a very dangerous path to take.  How do you deal with those who dont want it? Camps, forced vaccinations ?? 

FWIW, in one of the legislative regimes where we operate, at some times recently if you get a positive result at a test centre they load you into a bus and take you to a camp well outside a centre of habitation for the duration of your isolation.  We've had staff who went through that.

I also note that we've had internment in the UK within my lifetime.

During Covid the government created a load of law without even debate in parliament.

These things are not so incomprehensible as one might hope.