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Hi, I'm familiar with the requirements of L8 and the obligations it places on duty holders (often, but not exclusively, Commercial Landlords) with regard to assessing the risk of/from legionella bacteria and the need, where assessment identifies a risk, to prepare a scheme to prevent or control such a risk. In my mind it would be good practice for the Duty Holder to openly share the details of the arrangements set out in the "scheme" with their commercial tenants. Equally, I think it is perfectly reasonable for a tenant to request a copy of any associated records - such as records of tap water flushing when the building, or the facilities in their part of it, is routinely unoccupied for periods exceding a week for example. But, is the duty holder absolutely compelled to provide such information? Incidentally exactly the same question is applicable with regards to the Duty Holder under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order. Does the tenent have a right to insist on seeing things like records of scheduled emergency lighting tests? And what can be done if the landlord (Duty Holder) does not oblige? Very interested to learn the views of my peers on this. Thank you in advance
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Rank: Super forum user 
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For commercial tennants there is a duty to co-operate. What would be the point of eight tennants in a single building all having their own surveys conducted and trying to enact controls in their neighbours property?
Whilst the landlord my be under ultimate duty the tennants owe duties to their employees and visitors so it becomes part of the lease - the landlord or their agent should not be entering occupied properties to conduct flushes which the occupant can readily do. Simlarly how can a tennant maintain emergency lighting, fire alarm, intruder alarm where the system is not local and limited to their area of occupancy. Slighty different for single occupancy where it becomes specific terms under the lease.
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Rank: Super forum user
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For commercial tennants there is a duty to co-operate. What would be the point of eight tennants in a single building all having their own surveys conducted and trying to enact controls in their neighbours property?
Whilst the landlord my be under ultimate duty the tennants owe duties to their employees and visitors so it becomes part of the lease - the landlord or their agent should not be entering occupied properties to conduct flushes which the occupant can readily do. Simlarly how can a tennant maintain emergency lighting, fire alarm, intruder alarm where the system is not local and limited to their area of occupancy. Slighty different for single occupancy where it becomes specific terms under the lease.
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Rank: Forum user
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Originally Posted by: Roundtuit  For commercial tennants there is a duty to co-operate. What would be the point of eight tennants in a single building all having their own surveys conducted and trying to enact controls in their neighbours property?
Whilst the landlord my be under ultimate duty the tennants owe duties to their employees and visitors so it becomes part of the lease - the landlord or their agent should not be entering occupied properties to conduct flushes which the occupant can readily do. Simlarly how can a tennant maintain emergency lighting, fire alarm, intruder alarm where the system is not local and limited to their area of occupancy. Slighty different for single occupancy where it becomes specific terms under the lease.
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit For commercial tennants there is a duty to co-operate. What would be the point of eight tennants in a single building all having their own surveys conducted and trying to enact controls in their neighbours property?
Whilst the landlord my be under ultimate duty the tennants owe duties to their employees and visitors so it becomes part of the lease - the landlord or their agent should not be entering occupied properties to conduct flushes which the occupant can readily do. Simlarly how can a tennant maintain emergency lighting, fire alarm, intruder alarm where the system is not local and limited to their area of occupancy. Slighty different for single occupancy where it becomes specific terms under the lease.
Hi Roundtuit, Thanks for your reply.
I think you may have misunderstood my question slightly. Perhaps I didnt make it very clear. My point/question does not relate to the duty of commercial tenants co-operating with other. Rather, I am enquiring specifically regarding the Landlord (where they are the duty holder for regarding control of Legionella and/or Fire Safety) and whether they are obligated to share records of associated actions. For example if the tenant of a multi tenant building has toilet/washing facilities assigned to their area of the building (used exclusively by them) has concerns regarding the frequency/reliability of tap flushing is the duty holder obliged to present the records of the flushing to that tenant. Regarding your point about "the landlord or their agent should not be entering occupied properties to conduct flushes which the occupant can readily do". The point is during extended holiday periods (for example in educational settings) the tenants office may be closed for up to 6 weeks) hence the need for the landlord or their againt to enter the office and conduct the tests which they are ultimately resposnsible for. Interested in your thoughts
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Rank: Super forum user
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Alf - as you are probably aware the current edition of L8 is silent on this. However, if one considers that Section 2(2) of HSWA is generally considered to only provide examples of the duties placed on an employer towards their employees under Section 2(1), you could by inference expect that the duty on an employer towards those other than their employees under Section 3(1) or a person having control, to some extent, over premises used as a workplace under Sectio 4(2) would extend to providing end users with information. I agree entirely that a tenant would be quite reasonable in asking for evidence that the risks have been assessed by the landlord and for evidence that appropriate control measures have been put in place. P
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Rank: Forum user
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If you / Landlord want to share the risk assessment then I owuld suggest that this has to be controlled and properly communicated. Scenario:
Q. Can you share the legionella risk assessment for my block of flats? A. Yes, no problem - these are the risks and controls - as you can see there are 10 low risk areas & 15 very low risk areas - all properly controlled Q. So we have a risk of legionella outbreak in the building? A. Yes, but its low to very low. Q. So there is a risk of me and my family catching / dying of legionella A. Yes, but low to very low. Q, But not absolutely zero and some areas are higher risk than others A. Correct ........ etc etc etc. Does Joe Public understand the concept of risk assessment - the risk may only be 1 in a million, but most play the euromillions lotter hoping for a 1 in a 140million chance of winning
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Alf999 I think you may have misunderstood my question slightly. Perhaps I didnt make it very clear. My point/question does not relate to the duty of commercial tenants co-operating with other.
And you obviously miss-understood my response. I was not talking about tennant to tennant but rather tennant to landlord. If the landlord shared the building assesment with the eight tennants as exampled. Bit like the landlord being the PC at a building site and the tennants being the subbies.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Originally Posted by: Alf999 I think you may have misunderstood my question slightly. Perhaps I didnt make it very clear. My point/question does not relate to the duty of commercial tenants co-operating with other.
And you obviously miss-understood my response. I was not talking about tennant to tennant but rather tennant to landlord. If the landlord shared the building assesment with the eight tennants as exampled. Bit like the landlord being the PC at a building site and the tennants being the subbies.
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