Rank: New forum user 
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Sorry if this has already done the rounds!
Please can anyone advise if they would class this scenario as a RIDDOR. An employee slipped on an icy walkway (within factory grounds) coming in to work and sprained knee resulting in 7 lost days so far. He is an operator in the factory and ironically was coming into work early to grit the paths for others and is part of the winter maintenance team.
As he hadn’t started work yet, would the accident be classed as ‘work related’ and therefore be reportable?
Thanks
Michelle
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Rank: Super forum user
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As with all RIDDOR, I am happy to be told I am wrong. In this case I would say not reportable. Out of work hours is a red herring. If this had been a person finished work and crossing a yard that was then struck by a forklift I doubt anyone would feel that it wouldn't be reportable. What is more relevant (in my humble opinion) is the bold part below. An accident is 'work-related' if any of the following played a significant role: - the way the work was carried out
- any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or
- the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened
Ice is slippery, but this is not due to your work. IIRC slips on ice arising from bad weather or exempt from claims etc, due to it being a part of every day risk. I am not sure that this extends into RIDDOR reporting, but I can't see what benefit the HSE would get from receiving ice slips on their reports. Maybe if this was caused be a leaky pipe onto a slope that froze, but if it was just a flat car park with frost for example, I wouldn't report.
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 2 users thanked CptBeaky for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Hi Michelle RIDDOR in its various iterations has always engendered debate and I don't agree with the Captain. Seems to me that the ONLY reason why this isn't reportable is that the victim hadn't started work, for precisely the reasons in the bold text that the Captain quotes. This is a dangerous walkway. It needed gritting or other treatment as a reasonably practicable precaution.. Unfortunate that the injured party was about to START work doing this. Of course HSE don't follow up the vast majority of slippery walkways during Winter. HSE investigates a tiny proportion of the accidents that are reported and probably a not much smaller number that are NOT reported. However, reportable or not, perhaps consideration should be given to providing a small quantity of grit or salt at the factory gate to enable people to use that to get to the front door relatively safely BEFORE they start work in earnest! [Forget RIDDOR, think Occupier's Liability] RIDDOR is not about liability (or even whether enforcement is justifiable). It is an administrative process to help generate national incident statistics. Doesn't actually achieve its purpose, such that HSE makes much more reliance on the Labour Force Survey but we are where we are.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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From HSE web site examples. Q. An employee steps out of his private car in the office car park. In doing so, he somehow twists his ankle. As a result, he has more than seven days off work. The employee had not yet started work for the day. There were no defects to the car park surface, debris or spillages etc present that may have contributed to the incident and the light was good. Is this reportable? A. No. Provided that there was nothing about the condition and design of the car park surface, condition, slope, weather conditions, lighting etc which contributed to the accident. Just because an accident occurs on work premises, this does not make it a work-related accident. Note: If the injured employee was not 'at work' then their employer, being in control of the premises, would still have to report any work-related accident which required the injured person to be taken to a hospital for treatment. So, if the injured person put their foot in a pothole and twisted their ankle, it might be reportable as work-related. If they had just stepped awkwardly out of the car, then it is not.
However RIDDOR or NOT if the employee was given this task then they should also have either been provided grips for shoes or grit as Peter suggests which can be used prior to walking on path. Chris Edited by user 07 December 2021 13:45:54(UTC)
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1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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From HSE web site examples. Q. An employee steps out of his private car in the office car park. In doing so, he somehow twists his ankle. As a result, he has more than seven days off work. The employee had not yet started work for the day. There were no defects to the car park surface, debris or spillages etc present that may have contributed to the incident and the light was good. Is this reportable? A. No. Provided that there was nothing about the condition and design of the car park surface
But in this case there is something wronge with the surface its icy - and the IP has come into work to dewal with it so i think its linked to work activity and reporatable - dont you just love RIDDOR.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Brian - I like the logic even if I don't come to the same conclusion!
When I worked for HSE, we always stuck to the adage "if in doubt, report", but that was in days when organisations had not become completely obsessed with reactive indicators of performance including in e.g. supply chain management. P
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Rank: Super forum user
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The HASAWA does place a duty on employers regarding access and egress to a place of work so I can also see Brian’s logic as gaining access is work related in a way. So, if say the company put a salt/ grit bin in the car park for this employee to use on the path before he clocks in, is he working when he uses it? The other questionable thing is start and finish of work. For instance, does my workday start when I open my office door, or when I turn my laptop on or the moment I walk through the door to the building? I have in the past on way more than one occasion been accosted about a work issue as I have just got out of my car and still in the car park (the smoking area is in the car park; they were not particularly lying-in wait for me). Then there are the days I get in an hour or more early, as I need to get to another part of the country for a meeting. Even one lunch time (unpaid) I was walking back into work, but still just outside the gates, when a manager started to have a go at me about something! So, the start of a working day can be a fluid thing, and don’t get me started on the end of the workday. RIDDOR is so much fun. Chris
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Peter
when i was an isnpector if i had foundf out about an incident like this and it had not been reported i would be asking why not! Ar i said dont you just love RIDDOR.
Taken from the ACOP for Workplace regs -
Regulation 12 Condition of floors and traffic routes
116 Arrangements should be made to minimise risks from snow and ice. This may involve gritting, snow clearing and closure of some routes, particularly outside stairs, ladders and walkways on roofs.
so for me this is so clearly a work activity, as the chap would not have been there if not going to clear the snow - the path is icy so in breach of ref 12 and its resulted in an over 7 day injury - It hits every factor in being riddor reportable.
As an inspector would i have done anything about it? Quick question about foot wear perhapse if the taks of snow clearing falls to this chap.
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Recall having a discussion with a new supervisor demanding to know why the workers trapsed through the factory in their domestic footwear walking past mandatory Safety Footwear signs. Unless you build a facility at the entrance there will always be an issue until the worker can reach their equipment normally kept in a locker room often buried deep on site.
Only ever worked at one site where the employee entrance led straight to the locker room but even that was after a walk across the car-park.
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2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Recall having a discussion with a new supervisor demanding to know why the workers trapsed through the factory in their domestic footwear walking past mandatory Safety Footwear signs. Unless you build a facility at the entrance there will always be an issue until the worker can reach their equipment normally kept in a locker room often buried deep on site.
Only ever worked at one site where the employee entrance led straight to the locker room but even that was after a walk across the car-park.
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