Rank: New forum user 
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My workplace use solvents and other highly flammable substances. The group are looking to install defib's on all sites, however I am concerned about this on this site, with there being a possibility of a spark from the defib. Their current stance is to 'move the casulalty to the defib instead of taking the defib into the zoned areas', which is obviously not an option in my eyes. Curious as to whether anyone has seen/heard of an alternative or some sort of ATEX approved Defib at all please? Thank you
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Rank: Super forum user 
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By the nature of what the defib does, I'd be surprised if an ATEX version could be designed. I have been involved in the provision of defibs in a site with zoned areas. The solution arrived at was that the defib would be allowed to be used in such an area, with the permission of the responsible supervisor, on the same basis as hot work would be allowed (except without filling in the hot work permit). This might require a flammable gas measurement to be taken first just as it would be before issuing a hot work permit. If your zones are such that you don't ever allow any hot work in them, it might be a different situation.
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Rank: New forum user
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Thank you Kate. We do not allow hot works to take place in these areas at all and only ATEX tools/lights/equipment are permitted to be used for any maintenance works. I appreciate your advice
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Rank: Super forum user
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I think you have a dilemma and I really don't know what the solution is!
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Rank: Super forum user
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Kate has given a sensible solution to the problem but if your rules are that this is a no go then I would suggest that the option of moving the casualty to a safe area and then use the defib is all that is left unless you want to have to say to the deceased relatives 'Sorry but the rules meant we couldn't use the defib even if there was a chance of saving your loved one'. Too often the rules can be the problem because circumstances have changed or the situation was not considered.
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Rank: Super forum user
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Also remember the definition of the terms Zone 0, 1 and 2. In shorthand - Zone 0 - an Ex atmosphere present all of the time Zone 1 - an Ex atmopshere may be present during normal operations Zone 2 - an Ex atmosphere isn't likely to occur in normal operations, but may happen occasionally for short periods.
So in reverse order, Zone 2 - on the balance of life risk, you may conclude the risk of the immeadiate life threat is a justifiable risk to use the defibrilator. Ideally the process is shut down Zone 1 - whats is the process, is it possible to identify when a process may release e.g. a vent release of a gas. If at the right stage of the process, the Zone 1 may not actially be present. For some processes, after process shut down the risk of a Zone 1 may dissapear very quickly e.g. an LEV extracting a flammable substance vapours may quickly clear the atmopshere. Zone 0 might be a bit more tricky, so there may be no option but to move the casualty to a non hazardous area. As for the standard reply on these forums - do a risk assessment!! Which will guide your judgement
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 1 user thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
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Rank: New forum user
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An AED is delivering an electrical shock. Therefore there is always the risk of a spark. You should not use in AED in an explosive environment where there is a build up of flammable vapors. One example would be a gas/petrol station forecourt. Having trained First Aid at various levels for over 40 years and worked within the petroochemical industry ( offshore and refinery) it was always bring the casualty to the defib. Have spoken to manufacturers (Zoll, Philipps, Schiller) and always got same advice there is a potential ( forseeable risk) of a spark. Chest comperessions could be done on casualty as moved ( to get oxygen to brain) and chest prepared for the pads being attached. One site had a trolley that was used at least twice to get casualty to "safe environment".
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Rank: Super forum user
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lstorer - Kate has hinted at the solution and Ian has essentially set out a solution. So, unless you are in Zone 0, it's probably time to amend the "rules". "Well, My Lord, we didn't move the casualty as that would breach our prohibition." "How likely was it that the casualty would die whilst being moved to the defibrillator when compared to the risk of an explosion in a Zone 2 area where the process had been shut down, except for the exhaust ventilation?" Not a good time to be standing in the witness box, particularly if there are going to be expert witnesses talking about the number of deaths resulting in delayed defibrillation and another expert witness talking to the virtual absence of explosions in Zone 2 areas where a process is not underway. DSEAR is qualfied by doing what is "reasonably practicable" NOT preventing every foreseeable bang. P
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Rank: Super forum user
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As I see this, the problem is a bit more than "the rules don't allow it" (which does indeed attract the solution "change the rules"). If you don't already have a practice of assessing the risks of hot work in the zoned areas, you may not have anyone with the skills (or indeed equipment - such as the flammable gas monitor I mentioned) to be able to weigh up the risks on the day. It's certainly way above the pay grade of a first aider.
So you would need either to (a) create a set of new rules based on a risk assessment looking at all scenarios in advance (in the way described by Ian) or (b) provide the training that would be needed for a responsible person to do a dynamic risk assessment when needed. Now imagine (a) how difficult it will be to accurately identify, document and understand such rules and (b) the pressure there is on the person given responsibility when they are not used to assessing these kinds of risks.
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1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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I forgot to add to yesterdays post - why is someone working in a Zone 0 atmosphere anyway. This shouldn't be routine. Maybe working inside a tank / cleaning a tank out as part of plant maintenance is the situation that comes to mind at first/most obvious reason. In which case you are also probably working under the Confined Spaces Regs - so you need a rescue plan in any case.
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Rank: Super forum user
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#7 I wouldn't have too much of an issue with someone using a defib machine on a garage forecourt. A hazardous area is only around the immediate filling point for the vehicle for 2m or so. Or around the tank vent pipes which are above ground by usually 3-4m. Stop fuelling, and close the vechicle fuel filler cap and the ex atmosphere is removed. It would only take a matter of seconds to do this - assuming the collapsed person is refuelling a vehicle. For example, if the collapsed person is a passenger in the vehicle, then they won't be inside the hazardous area. Lots of nonsense is spouted around DSEAR and hazardous areas.
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3 users thanked Ian Bell2 for this useful post.
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