Originally Posted by: antbruce001

Event:

During a religious service, in the Sunday School a children got her finger caught in a fire door within the place of worship. As a result, she lost the end of a finger and was required to spend 24 hours in hosipital.

Question:

Is this reportable under RIDDOR as an injury to a member of the public?

Assuming the child was not a worker, if they were taken directly from the scene to the hospital, then yes.

Originally Posted by: wjp62

Whilst the criteria for non-workers (child) 'injuries to non-workers which result in them being taken directly to hospital for treatment' is met you would need to establish if it was 'work related' i.e.

- the way the work was carried out

- any machinery, plant, substances or equipment used for the work or

- the condition of the site or premises where the accident happened

HSE guidance states: injuries are reportable under RIDDOR when they result from a work-related accident

However, the OP reports that the child was attending the 'sunday school', which implies that there was a worker (thougth probably a volunteer worker) teaching the sunday school.  Volunteer workers at churches do seem to be covered by RIDDOR - see e.g. https://www.hse.gov.uk/v...involving-volunteers.htm which lists as reportable "A volunteer suffers fatal injuries following a fall from height while carrying out roof maintenance work on behalf of a church".

I would regard injuries to children attending a sunday school to be a decision much like reporting of injuries to children at a (weekday) school.  That would lead to e.g. https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/edis1.pdf which includes an example "if a pupil is taken to hospital after breaking an arm during an ICT class, following a fall over a trailing cable, the incident would be reportable."  Trapping fingers in a door is a matter arising from the condition of the premises - you can install door hinge guards (as do most primary schools).

So I still consider this reportable, as it would be if it had occurred at a school with a paid teacher.

I don't think that HSE's guidance on RIDDOR is particularly helpful as regards this sort of incident.

Those words - "the condition of  the site or premises where the accident happened", These words are not in the Regulations which say:

5.Where any person not at work, as a result of a work-related accident, suffers— (a) an injury, and that person is taken from the site of the accident to a hospital for treatmentin respect of that injury;

So, if we accept that there is an element of work, then doors closing in a Sunday School forms part of what happens in the workplace.

Remember that RIDDOR is NOT about liability.

However, it is easily forseeable that a child will get their finger caught in the trap at the hinge or between door and frame.

Given the number of accidents to children at hinges, I suggest that providing hinge guards in premises used as a Sunday School would be "reasonably practicable". Perhaps not reasonably practicable to protect the trap of a standard door and its frame.

My very young daughter (at the time) closed the door in our flat trapping my very young (agt the time) son's finger at the hinge. The local children's hospital told me that this happened several times a week! At the time hinge guards were new-fangled. These days they are very cheap.

Originally Posted by: peter gotch

I don't think that HSE's guidance on RIDDOR is particularly helpful as regards this sort of incident.

Those words - "the condition of  the site or premises where the accident happened", These words are not in the Regulations which say:

Effectively the same in (c), but otherwise agree with your post.

RIDDOR Reg 2

2) In these Regulations, any reference to a work-related accident or dangerous occurrence includes an accident or dangerous occurrence attributable to—

(a)the manner of conducting an undertaking;

(b)the plant or substances used for the purposes of an undertaking; or

(c)the condition of the premises used for the purposes of an undertaking or any part of them.

Chris