Rank: Forum user 
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I have a board member influencing the rest of the board by insisting that UK safety law does not require a company to hold training records. What would you say?
I can see that in PUWER there are specific requirements for training records for vehicles & chainsaws, I believe IRR17 has a requirement for training records and so does Asbestos regs. Other legislation only has the requirement to have competent employees.
Already shared the view of the prosecutor and their expectation to interrogate evidence of competence. This is difficult if you do not hold records. The board does not accept that they are putting themselves at risk of liability by not holding adequate competence records (training and competence assessments).
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Rank: Super forum user 
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I would say:
Yes, you are right, Director, with very few exceptions UK safety law doesn't require training records to be kept, well spotted sir. The reason we want to keep the training records isn't to comply with the law, it is so that we can better manage our training programmes and competence assessments so that employees do their work properly so your business can profit, and to protect your business from liability if there is an accident and the lawyers point out that there is no evidence of training. I see you have some concern about keeping the training records, what is that concern exactly so that I can try to address it and solve the problem you see with it? And from then on, I wouldn't keep training records, I would keep evidence of competence which would look remarkably similar to the training records I was no longer keeping ...
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 5 users thanked Kate for this useful post.
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😉😊😊 I like your approach Kate
I had several similar arguments when I was a Fire Safety Inspecting Officer
I would explain to the Responsible Person that they must (if an employer) train their staff. No argument
It was my job to check that they were. So would they rather:
1) Give me a folder of training records to read, so I can tick my form and get on with my day
Or
2) For me to talk to and quiz a sample of their staff to ascertain their knowledge of procedures etc
Which option is more likely to get me leaving your premises smiling?
Its a no brained. A training schedule and record of attendance wins ever time
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1 user thanked Messy for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user 
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If you are certified to management systems there is a requirement for "documented information"
ISO 45002 - The organization should retain appropriate documented information that provides evidence of a
worker’s competence, e.g. existing HR and other information such as CVs or training logs.
ISO 9001 / ISO 14001 / ISO 45001 - 7.2 Competence
The organization shall:
d) retain appropriate documented information as evidence of competence.
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8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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If you are certified to management systems there is a requirement for "documented information"
ISO 45002 - The organization should retain appropriate documented information that provides evidence of a
worker’s competence, e.g. existing HR and other information such as CVs or training logs.
ISO 9001 / ISO 14001 / ISO 45001 - 7.2 Competence
The organization shall:
d) retain appropriate documented information as evidence of competence.
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8 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
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Rank: Forum user
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Thank you so much for your replies. Interestingly my company is ISO 9001/14001/45001/50001 certified and have been getting away for years without actually effectively managing competence. When the external auditors last raised a NCR on this topic, I was asked to let our certification slip, as they couldn't see the value added to the business (our clients do not require this certification and never will, or at least no in my lifetime).
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Rank: Super forum user 
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Construction company I work for is competence checked annually by Safe Contractor scheme and they ask for training records. No records - no competence.
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1 user thanked firesafety101 for this useful post.
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Well tbh there are other areas where we are not mandated to keep records BUT it makes life so much easier to do so. With regards to training I have found that whenever a claim comes in the very first thing the lawers want (and also our insurance company for that matter) are copies of all the trainng records / certificates etc including induction that the individual has undertaken. That said if Director feels confident he/she can use this approach in any future investigation / court case then good luck to them.
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1 user thanked ajw for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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HASAWA requires employers to provide training. If no records are being kept how can your company defend itself in the case of a claim or prosecution. I remember working for a Local Authority which was prosecuted by HSE and the main thrust of their case was based on our training records not being sufficient to show exactly what training had taken place and what checks were there on knowledge learned. As Kate says check on competence and keep a record but base your competence checks on the training given.
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1 user thanked John D C for this useful post.
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Rank: Super forum user
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…and of course there is section 40 of the Health and Safety at Work Act, which places the onus on the employer to that they have done everything reasonably practicable to comply with their legal duties including section 2(2)(c),”… provision of such information, instruction, training and supervision as is necessary to ensure, so far as is reasonably practicable, the health and safety at work of his employees;”
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1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
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