We have been applying the same rules as for mobiles for some time - I.E must not be operated by the driver. Even before these "new rules" a driver could have been charged with "Driving wothout due care and attention" if inputting onto them

Originally Posted by: Brasso

what are peoples thoughts on the use of in-cab technology used in the refuse collection field whereby engine needs to be running to power vehicle but device is used to note missed bins etc. 

TBH never seen a single crewed vehicle (same for ambulances) so the question is MUST it be the driver making the input or can the co-worker participate? If it is currently mounted in the cab could it not be repositioned for the bin slammers to access?

After all if the current design is for a driver input then unfortunately the device was likely illegal to use before these new rules (the rules on a fitted sat-nav were not whilst in motion as there is acceptance they do not work when the engine is off).

Originally Posted by: Holliday42333

I agree in princilple that the non-driver could interact with the device.

Slightly off-topic but it did make me wonder about the currect trend for screen based interfaces in cars.  A friend has just picked up a Tesla and ALL interactions with the vehicle systems is via the touch screen.  Do the new regs mean that a lone driver cannot change station on the radio while driving?

Im sure i read somewhere that the "rules" included chageing a radio station or a CD ETC but i cannot remember where that was or how accurate the info may be

Originally Posted by: achrn

There is a catch-all "MUST exercise proper control of your vehicle at all times"

Thanks - that the wording I was thinking of - and yes i agree that even before the "mobile phone rules" you could have been charged with this. The difference being that you might have had a chance of argueing the control bit while now its a simple absolute offence. Thats exactly teh reason we apply the same "internal rules" to incab technology as we dont belive the driver can "exercise proper control of teh vehicle" if trying to input into teh device.

Tesla is the new generation of automobile abomination with everything pushed through its touch screen interface. How it passed EU vehicle type testing beggars belief and one unfortunate in Germany has been prosecuted in consequence for using a Tesla's controls https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53666222

Some manufacturers are now making a Unique Selling Point of the fact they fit "physical buttons" for controlling car features such as climate control rather than scrolling through a touch screen.

The principle of distraction resulting in careless or dangerous operation also applies to other modes of transport including cyclists as Baroness McIntosh has been informed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61018584

Originally Posted by: achrn

What 'rules' are you all talking about?

I think this is what the OP is referring to

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/81/made

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transport-secretary-declares-zero-tolerance-for-phone-use-behind-the-wheel-as-law-changes-today

It does not use the term handheld, so does the definition of mobile also cover in a vehicle which moves? I guess we will have to go back to the original legislation to see how it now reads in full.

I believe that completely hands free is still allowed (shame), but I guess that would mean that it is voice activated and not touched.

A slight difficulty I have with the OP post, so the bin wagon driver records the houses they missed, I assume while they are still close to the said house (so they can remember), so why not actually empty the persons bin, in place of just logging it missed.

Chris

Originally Posted by: chris42

so why not actually empty the persons bin, in place of just logging it missed

Our local council when replacing vehicles decided it did not need the same carrying capacity as before as we were all "recycling more" according to the spreadsheet. Only it transpired their wishes for less waste to move were not enacted by the population with an end result waggons breaking out of a collection round due to being full and needing a marker of where to return rather than waiting for the missed collection calls made to the town hall.

Probably ties in with some years ago there was outrage in the local press that the council had spent a small fortune equipping the bin waggons with iPads for communication. The conspiracy theorists claimed it was all part of the background preparation to charge households by how much they throw (our bins have RFID tags hidden in the lip moulding).

Originally Posted by: chris42

Originally Posted by: achrn

What 'rules' are you all talking about?

I think this is what the OP is referring to

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2022/81/made

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/transport-secretary-declares-zero-tolerance-for-phone-use-behind-the-wheel-as-law-changes-today

It does not use the term handheld, so does the definition of mobile also cover in a vehicle which moves? I guess we will have to go back to the original legislation to see how it now reads in full.

I believe that completely hands free is still allowed (shame), but I guess that would mean that it is voice activated and not touched.

A slight difficulty I have with the OP post, so the bin wagon driver records the houses they missed, I assume while they are still close to the said house (so they can remember), so why not actually empty the persons bin, in place of just logging it missed.

The rule absolutely does use the term hand-held.  Rule 110 of C&U regs is defined in SI 2003 No 2965 and states (paragraph 1) "No person shall drive a motor vehicle on a road if he is using— (a) a hand-held mobile telephone; or (b) a hand-held device of a kind specified in paragraph (4)."

The recent amendment makes paragraph 4 become "A device referred to in paragraphs (1)(b), (2)(b) and (3)(b) is a device, other than a two-way radio, which is capable of transmitting and receiving data, whether or not those capabilities are enabled."

You can touch a phone or touch-screen.  What you can't do is hold it.  Indeed, the gov.uk link cited above says "Drivers ... can also still use a device ‘hands-free’ while driving if it’s secured in a cradle, allowing motorists to use their phone as a sat-nav."

Or alternatively https://www.gov.uk/using...es-when-driving-the-law: "You can use devices with hands-free access, as long as you do not  hold them at any time during usage. Hands-free access means using, for example: ... a dashboard holder or mat, a windscreen mount ..."

Edited by user 07 April 2022 15:10:15(UTC)  | Reason: spilling

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2022/04/13/touchscreen-development-at-risk-of-compromising-safety-says-vnc-automotive

When the makers start to question the direction an industry is taking....

Originally Posted by: RVThompson

How is it possible to navigate a touch-screen without taking your eyes off the road?

I don't think it is.

Most cars don't have a head-up display and it's not possible to check the speedometer, fuel gauge, warning lights, etc. without taking your eyes off the road.  However, I know of no requirement in statute or Highway Code that insists you never take your eyes off the road, so that's not fundamentally a problem.

I think it's a trend that will continue - one touch screen with a four-wire serial bus is bound to be cheaper to build and more reliable than miles of individual wires all to be routed from and to switches spread across the dashboard.  Once the development cost is spread over enough units, they'll all be doing it.