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Green40245  
#1 Posted : 13 April 2022 11:37:02(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Green40245

Reviewing a fire risk assessment recently with lots of bottles of argon gas dotted around the unit, I was wondering about best practice regarding fire action and these bottles. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 13 April 2022 11:47:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Have you asked your supplier?

Generally find the likes of BOC provide good sector specific advice

https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/index.html

Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 13 April 2022 11:47:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Have you asked your supplier?

Generally find the likes of BOC provide good sector specific advice

https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/index.html

A Kurdziel  
#4 Posted : 13 April 2022 12:42:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

What do you mean by “fire action”?  For example if an area, which contains argon gas cylinders, is on fire, are you asking should staff,  evacuate, fight the fire  or remove the cylinders to a safe place?

Green40245  
#5 Posted : 13 April 2022 13:28:15(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Green40245

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

What do you mean by “fire action”?  For example if an area, which contains argon gas cylinders, is on fire, are you asking should staff,  evacuate, fight the fire  or remove the cylinders to a safe place?

Well that was the question really, would you recomend removal of the bottles if safe to do so, or would the fire brigade just secure the area and pour water on from a distance and wait for them to explode

 

Green40245  
#6 Posted : 13 April 2022 13:34:45(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Green40245

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Have you asked your supplier?

Generally find the likes of BOC provide good sector specific advice

https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/index.html

In case of fire: Stop leak if safe to do so. Continue water spray from protected position until container stays cool. Use extinguishants to contain the fire. Isolate the source of the fire or let it burn out.

paul.skyrme  
#7 Posted : 13 April 2022 14:42:28(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
paul.skyrme

I am in a wicked mood today, so all I can say is it ain't gonna catch fire, and if it splits open it is going to help put the fire out!

thanks 4 users thanked paul.skyrme for this useful post.
Martin Fieldingt on 13/04/2022(UTC), A Kurdziel on 13/04/2022(UTC), Kate on 13/04/2022(UTC), firesafety101 on 28/04/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#8 Posted : 13 April 2022 14:48:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Green40245 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Have you asked your supplier?
In case of fire: Stop leak if safe to do so. Continue water spray from protected position until container stays cool. Use extinguishants to contain the fire. Isolate the source of the fire or let it burn out.

So the supplier read verbatim from a Safety Data Sheet?

Personally never found that myself talking to their technical team.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 13/04/2022(UTC), A Kurdziel on 13/04/2022(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#9 Posted : 13 April 2022 14:48:49(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Originally Posted by: Green40245 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Have you asked your supplier?
In case of fire: Stop leak if safe to do so. Continue water spray from protected position until container stays cool. Use extinguishants to contain the fire. Isolate the source of the fire or let it burn out.

So the supplier read verbatim from a Safety Data Sheet?

Personally never found that myself talking to their technical team.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 13/04/2022(UTC), A Kurdziel on 13/04/2022(UTC)
Green40245  
#10 Posted : 13 April 2022 18:39:37(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Green40245

Originally Posted by: paul.skyrme Go to Quoted Post

I am in a wicked mood today, so all I can say is it ain't gonna catch fire, and if it splits open it is going to help put the fire out!

TBH that had crossed my mind LOL!

Green40245  
#11 Posted : 13 April 2022 18:43:07(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Green40245

Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: Green40245 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Roundtuit Go to Quoted Post
Have you asked your supplier?
In case of fire: Stop leak if safe to do so. Continue water spray from protected position until container stays cool. Use extinguishants to contain the fire. Isolate the source of the fire or let it burn out.

So the supplier read verbatim from a Safety Data Sheet?

Personally never found that myself talking to their technical team.

I didnt call them but I will tomorrow, that was the BOC literature as you said, is this something you have experience of or?
A Kurdziel  
#12 Posted : 14 April 2022 08:31:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Obviously, we don’t know the natureof your set up, which is why it’s down to your risk assessment, but similar issues have been raised in the past on the forum and the general consensus was, unless there is a pressing reason to do so, not to remove the gas cylinders during a fire. This is not so much the risk that they might explode but  because a) people are wasting time when they should evacuating  and b) dragging cylinders about during an evocation could  create bottlenecks etc.

The gas itself does not pose that great a risk: we all agree that it is not a fire/explosion  hazard if the cylinder is discharged. The cylinders won’t necessarily explode either: they might just safely discharge an inert gas.  Finally, even a large  cylinder has less than £200 worth of gas in it so there  is not even a financial reason to “save” the cylinders.

Finally, probably not for your benefit, but  for causal readers of this forum: ensure that you have a suitable risk assessment in place that, focuses on preventing a fire in the first place and that you have mitigation in place that will stop the fire from spreading. In that way this becomes a purely theoretical conjecture about an unlikely event, which we can make jokes about on the forum rather than a significant risk to worry about.

Edited by user 14 April 2022 09:56:54(UTC)  | Reason: spellings

Green40245  
#13 Posted : 14 April 2022 08:59:14(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Green40245

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post
Obviously, we don’t know the neater of your set up, which is why it’s down to your risk assessment, but similar issues have been raised in the past on the forum and the general consensus was, unless there is a pressing reason to do so, not to remove the gas cylinders during a fire. This is not so much the risk that they might explode but because a) people are wasting time when they should evacuating and b) dragging cylinders about during an evocation could create bottlenecks etc.The gas itself does not pose that great a risk: we all agree that it is not a fire/explosion hazard if the cylinder is discharged. The cylinders won’t necessarily explode either: they might just safely discharge an inert gas. Finally, even a large cylinder has less than £200 worth of gas in it so there is not even a financial reason to “save” the cylinders.Finally, probably not for your benefit, but for causal readers of this forum: ensure that you have a suitable risk assessment in place that, focuses on preventing a fire in the first place and that you have mitigation in place that will stop the fire from spreading. In that way this becomes a purely theoretical conjecture about an unlikely event, which we can make jokes about on the forum rather than a significant risk to worry about.
Great answer, part of the review is considering the people fighting the fire, so I can go forward with this, thanks
chris42  
#14 Posted : 14 April 2022 10:12:40(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Agree with A Kurdziel. I asked a similar question a few years ago regard Oxygen / Acetylene sets, and got the same answer regarding don’t try and get them out. I would add to the comments though. Do make sure you tell the fire brigade that you have them and approx. where they are (on plan) and I would also suggest that they are not stored on a fire escape route in case the heat of a fire does make them release their pressure quickly. Obviously, fire fighters may be going back into the building on the fire escape route.

Chris

thanks 1 user thanked chris42 for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 14/04/2022(UTC)
stevedm  
#15 Posted : 27 April 2022 21:46:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

Might be of interest...I was on the working party that produceed the original a long time ago for acetylene and trained the fire service and home office as it is also used in the production of some illegal drugs...you really want to know what is going to happen when you knock a door in... :)

https://bcga.co.uk/topics/cylinders-in-fires/#:~:text=BCGA%20Leaflet%206%20provides%20information,your%20work%20place%20risk%20assessment.

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