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kwoodhouse  
#1 Posted : 01 June 2022 10:47:46(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
kwoodhouse

Is it possible to have a rolling permit to work for a specific contractor who visits the site regularly, e.g. electrician?

achrn  
#2 Posted : 01 June 2022 10:55:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

I wouldn't regard such a thing as a permit to work - a key part of the permit to work is that it has the specific measures to be in place for the duration of the particular activity, and it has a hand-back to record that the  activity is complete and teh worksite is safe.  Neither of those things can happen with a 'continous' permit to work.

If you mean a standing authorisation to attend site and do works, that sounds like a subcontractor approval to me, which is something different. 

Our contractor approvals are annual.  Our permits to work are for the duration of the particular activity with particular personnel (so cannot be longer than a shift - if a task extends over a personnel changeover we issue a new one which identifies the staff now working).  I can envisage a permit-to-work that includes the facility for staff to sign on and off it, if you routinely have multi-shift tasks, but I can't imagine one that covers multiple activities on multiple occasions.

thanks 2 users thanked achrn for this useful post.
HSSnail on 01/06/2022(UTC), A Kurdziel on 08/06/2022(UTC)
Pirellipete  
#3 Posted : 01 June 2022 11:01:24(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

Practically, yes,

But the questions would be, IMO,  Is their work being controlled adequately ?  does it need coordinating with other trades, are there times when they can't work due to other simops going on, do you know when they're onsite/left site ??  are they working on live circuits/equipment that needs isolating/may affect others etc etc

Depends if you feel comfortable Managing the Risk...........

I have issued a weekly permit to a subcontractor, but only because I'm comfortable that they operate their own robust Daily PTW system, which I spot check.

kwoodhouse  
#4 Posted : 01 June 2022 11:02:52(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
kwoodhouse

Thanks, can you give me an idea of what is required in a contractor approval form or point me in the right direction? We obviously have RAMS, insurance documentation, etc. for the contractor in question.

achrn  
#5 Posted : 01 June 2022 11:24:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: kwoodhouse Go to Quoted Post

Thanks, can you give me an idea of what is required in a contractor approval form

Our process requires whatever they have out of

  • Comany name, address, telephone etc. and registration number
  • principal contact at the company
  • scope the approval covers
  • number of employees
  • turnover
  • insurances (with limits, renewal dates, whether it has indemnity to principal)
  • contact details for the competent person for H&S
  • details of any enforcement action
  • copy of H&S policy
  • whether they have written H&S procedures
  • details of any past RIDDOR
  • accident records for last 5 years
  • whether they undertake roles under CDM (PC / C / PD / D)
  • whether they have any independant accreditations (e.g. CHAS, etc)
  • are they 9001, 14001, 18001 and if so accreditation details and expiry date
  • some specific stuff regarding railway working
  • do they have a written bribery and corruption policy
  • do they have a written slavery and human trafficking policy
  • are all staff paid statutory minimum wage? are all staff paid teh real living wage (TM)?
  • who has completed form

Then our process also records who has reviewed all teh above and judged it adequate (we have three grades of approval - lowest is for basic office supplier, e.g. the outfit that provides sandwiches for meetings, highest grade is for safety critical staff, e.g. the outfit that provides us lookouts for live railway working) and who approved the decision (needs to be a director).

Any outfit in the top two grades then has performance feedback gathered (but we e.g. don't rate each batch of sandwiches from the sandwich outfit). 

Each project then has RAMS as appropriate (again, we don't ask for RAMS from the sandwich outfit, but we do from e.g. electricians).

Pirellipete  
#6 Posted : 01 June 2022 12:09:40(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

CITB has downloadable templates for permits to work, including electrical work in one of the sections,

HTH

https://www.citb.co.uk/standards-and-delivering-training/health-and-safety-publications-and-support-materials/ge700-companion-content/checklists-and-forms/

stevedm  
#7 Posted : 01 June 2022 13:10:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
stevedm

There is a difference between approval to work and permit to work...what you describe is authority to worm on site...permit to work would be required for certain activities such at hot work or confined space and these would be task specific and time defined to the duration of the task only...

thanks 1 user thanked stevedm for this useful post.
HSSnail on 01/06/2022(UTC)
HSSnail  
#8 Posted : 01 June 2022 14:37:10(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

I agree totaly with others that permits should be task specific - over the years I have seen far two many that are basicaly bits of paper that say "this person is OK to work at height" or "undertake hot work" without specifying what actions are needed on behalf of all employers involded so that the work can be conducted safely. These usualy come to light after a seriouse accident.

Bits of paper dont keep us safe - they are just a way of documenting the safe system, and Permits should be about very specific arrangement in high hazard/risk activities.

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