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abes1988  
#1 Posted : 02 September 2022 11:38:22(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
abes1988

Hi,

I was hoping to get some advice as to whether to sunbmit a RIDDOR report or not?

To give a little background - a member of public had his foot ran over by a sub contractor whilst visiting our site. After intial first aid/assessment on site, the IP refused the offer of an ambulance and continued with his day.

After a follow up courtesy call, it turns out the IP decided to take himself to hospital on the evening of the incident. After mulitple scans etc. it turns out he has suffered nerve, tendon and muscle damage to his foot and has been advised to keep his foot elevated and rest for ten days. As he earns a living as a photographer/videographer, this means two weeks without work.  

The injury listed does not require a RIDDOR. However we are unsure if he went directly from site to hospital? Also, should the sub contractor be taking ownership of this?

If it was one our employees who had sustained the injury, a RIDDOR would have been submitted due to incapacitation for over 7 days.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Joe

HSSnail  
#2 Posted : 02 September 2022 12:54:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Im not clear on is why a member of the public would be visiting your site - or what work activities were actualy going on?  But for what its worth my initial thoughts are:

The Current guidance for none employees is that the go directly to hospital and recieve treatment.

Reading your description I am not clear if he went home 1st which would remove the need to report. It also sounds like he did not recive treatement (Xrays etc are diagnostic) so again not reportable.

Its the employers duty to report - but i think there is an argument that if you are in control of the site then the sub contractor is working for you in H&S terms.

achrn  
#3 Posted : 03 September 2022 16:45:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: abes1988 Go to Quoted Post

...the IP refused the offer of an ambulance and continued with his day.

After a follow up courtesy call, it turns out the IP decided to take himself to hospital on the evening of the incident...

Assuming it really is a member of teh public (and not someone at work), then if the IP "continued with his day" and only decided to go to hospital that evening, then they didn't get taken directly to hospital. 

RIDDOR doesn't say it's reportable if they go to a hospital without going home, it says "is taken from the site of the accident to a hospital for treatment in respect of that injury" - carrying on with your day is not being taken to hospital for treatment of that injury.  Wherever the IP went while carrying on with their day, they weren't at the site of the accident, so weren't taken from the site of accident to hospital for treatment.

I'm really struggling to see how this could possibly be RIDDOR (if they really weren't at work).

Edited by user 03 September 2022 16:46:30(UTC)  | Reason: fixed mucked-up formatting

peter gotch  
#4 Posted : 04 September 2022 10:17:58(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Joe

If this person was really a member of the public then I agree that it is not reportable for reasons already given.

But, what if this person was there to take photographs (in the course of their employment or SELF-EMPLOYMENT) then different rules comes into play.

Initially it is about identifying the "responsible perons"

Responsible person 3.—(1) In these Regulations, the “responsible person” is— (a) in relation to an injury, death or dangerous occurrence reportable under regulation 4, 5, 6or 7 or recordable under regulation 12(1)(b) involving— (i) an employee, that employee’s employer; or (ii) a person not at work or a self-employed person, or in relation to any other dangerousoccurrence, the person who by means of their carrying on any undertaking was incontrol of the premises where the reportable or recordable incident happened, at thetime it happened; or [continues]

So, if this person was "at work" [as defined in the Health and Safety at Work etc Act 1974] the the responsible person is their OWN employer, or if self-employed whoever was in control of the premises.

That's one of the changes that came in with RIDDOR 2013. Under previous iterations of RIDDOR the self-employed were required to report some accidents to themselves and HSE research indicated that over 90% didn't - not particularly surprising - hardly at the top of your priorities when you are recovering.

Then we have to look at whether it meets reportability criteria for non-fatals to a person "at work".

Non-fatal injuries to workers 4.—(1) Where any person at work, as a result of a work-related accident, suffers— [continues]

(2) Where any person at work is incapacitated for routine work for more than seven consecutive days (excluding the day of the accident) because of an injury resulting from an accident arising out of or in connection with that work, the responsible person must send a report to the relevant enforcing authority in an approved manner as soon as practicable and in any event within 15 days of the accident.

On the basis of your narrative, it sounds as if this WAS reportable as an "over 7 day accident" IF the person was "at work" - if self-employed down to whoever was in control of the site. [All assumes that you are not challenging any element of the narrative]

If it has taken time for the information to reach the "reportable person" and they were to miss the 15 day deadline, the chances of enforcement action for late reporting is very, very slim. The enforcing authorities are stretched and have better things to do than chase late RIDDORs - should be more interested in the ones that are NOT reported at all.

Conversely, if the person was just a member of the public, then NOT reportable.

P

HSSnail  
#5 Posted : 05 September 2022 08:19:20(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

Originally Posted by: abes1988 Go to Quoted Post

...

A

RIDDOR doesn't say it's reportable if they go to a hospital without going home, it says "is taken from the site of the accident to a hospital for treatment in respect of that injury" - carrying on with your day is not being taken to hospital for treatment of that injury. 

You are correct in the 1st part - but no where does it say IMMEDIATELY so i belive it could still be RIDDOR if you carry on with your days work but go directrly to hopsital from teh site of the accident later in teh day.
achrn  
#6 Posted : 05 September 2022 19:34:26(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
achrn

Originally Posted by: Brian Hagyard Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: achrn Go to Quoted Post

RIDDOR doesn't say it's reportable if they go to a hospital without going home, it says "is taken from the site of the accident to a hospital for treatment in respect of that injury" - carrying on with your day is not being taken to hospital for treatment of that injury. 

You are correct in the 1st part - but no where does it say IMMEDIATELY so i belive it could still be RIDDOR if you carry on with your days work but go directrly to hopsital from teh site of the accident later in teh day.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your scenario.  Are you postulating a case where the injured party is injured on site, then goes about their day, then returns to the site where the injury occurred, then goes from there to hospital?

If that happened I still wouldn't RIDDOR it. It plainly (in my mind) is not what the legislation addresses.

HSSnail  
#7 Posted : 06 September 2022 07:50:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

I'm not sure I'm understanding your scenario.  Are you postulating a case where the injured party is injured on site, then goes about their day, then returns to the site where the injury occurred, then goes from there to hospital?

If that happened I still wouldn't RIDDOR it. It plainly (in my mind) is not what the legislation addresses.

10 years ago i broke my Ankle (not a work activity so was never going to be RIDDOR) slipping (Ironic i know) but being a stubbon Yorkshire Man i insisted it was only sprained and stayed at the scene of the accident a couple of hours before deciding i needed to go to hospital - eight weeks in pot and an operation to pin it im a nightmare in airports! 

Had this been a work related accident i belive it would have been RIDDOR as i had gone straight from the site of the accident to hospital.

When i said home in my 1st reply it could have been anywhere. Even going to your Doctors before being sent to hospital removes the need for riddor. What i was not clear from the original question was what had happened to the IP after teh accident.

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