I work for a small FM company, who's engineers are carrying out works for a much larger FM, for a client (public houses). The large FM have none of their own engineers, but they get all jobs from the client, who we have no direct access to.  We have other clients set up like this. They act as PC, with us as their contractor, running site. They set up the CPP and the site file and induct us onto site before works begins, and complete the H&S file on completion. 

This new large FM are trying to get us to agree to be the PC, with no PCI available to us. This feels off to me. Surely they are the PC and we are contractors? There are other contractors on site, who we would be overseeing... so i'm happy to act as "lead contractor", but PC? There is no PD. The job is refurbishment of a public house and installation (us) of a new air conditioning split system (3rd party).  Can anyone tell me their thoughts on this? feels like they are trying to pass off their responsability to us... although I know they wont be on site... I have no issues with my team overseeing the other contractors on site, inducting them, etc... but who is the PC in this instance? 

Edited by user 12 September 2022 11:34:18(UTC)  | Reason: spelling

Hi Kelly

CDM defines a Client as 

“client” means any person for whom a project is carried out

Note also that "project" is defined in CDM with reference to a "structure" another defined term.

The Interpretation Act 1978 says that, unless the contrary intention is clear, any reference to a word in the singular includes the plural.

Hence, you can have multiple clients, multiple projects, multiple structures and this is common.

So, suppose the owners of the public houses dish out a lump of money to the large FM contractor and ask them to spend it, that large FM contractor might fall within the definition of "client", somewhat similar to the role of the "client's agent" in CDM 1994, though that role was removed in CDM 2007, probably as a result of it being abused.

I can actually see logic in your company acting as the PC as YOU know about how the work is done best. The large FM company probably doesn't add much value if the only thing they are doing is things like site inductions that they are probably ill placed to do - for the simple reason that your company are the specialists who do know how things should be done.

So, from my perspective the real problems are identification of who the operational client actually is, who the principal designer is and why there is no pre construction information.given to you.

The principal contractor, nor you as a contractor cannot possibly do their job properly with no PCI.

You are doing refurbishments in pubs, most of which are likely to predate the year 2000. Hence, as starters it is probable that there will be asbestos containing materials that you might distrurb. So, as example the PCI should include the refurbishment asbestos survey. If there isn't one, how do you know where the ACMs might be?!?!

Similarly you write that the large FM contractor will do the health and safety file. 

All being done properly they should not be "doing" the HSF, but amending or supplementing and existing HSF!

There should be very few pubs that haven't had any work subject to CDM done since 1995. An existing HSF is required to be included within the pre construction information for the next project.

“pre-construction information” means information in the client’s possession or which is reasonably obtainable by or on behalf of the client, which is relevant to the construction work and is of an appropriate level of detail and proportionate to the risks involved, including— (a) information about—      (i) the project;      (ii) planning and management of the project;     (iii) health and safety hazards, including design and construction hazards and how they will be addressed;            and (b) information in any existing health and safety file;