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A Kurdziel  
#1 Posted : 16 September 2022 09:15:57(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

Hello

I am reaching out into the wider H&S community to ask about how organisations are dealing with Water Supply (Water Fittings) Regulations 1999, also called the RASS regulations by the plumbing trade.

The aim of the regs is to ensure that fittings to the end of taps etc will not allow the back siphoning of dirty water into the mains. The regs are enforced by your local water company ie the commercial business  that sends you a water bill.  We are having issues that our local water supplier has decided that the eyewash stations which we have fitted to handwash basins in our chemistry labs are unacceptable as there exists the possibility   that someone might leave the eyewash in a sink of dirty water and that the water might back siphon into the mains. Note this is not a risk assessment based approach-if it dangles into a sink, it is unacceptable, end of story. If we shorten the hoses of course it will be difficult, if not impossible to spray the eyewash to onto someone’s face.

We are looking at having retractable hoses fitted   but there is a significant   cost associated with this ( we have at least a dozen eyewash stations which might need upgrading)

The questions I am asking a more general than about this specific issue:

  1. Has anybody else been gotten by their water company?
  2. How prescriptive an approach have they taken?
  3. Is there much variation between different water companies?

 

Plus an aside:

When I first tried to post this, I simply used the name of the regulations as the title only to be told that a posting had already been made. I looked it up and yes, a short posting appeared in  July 2002!

Of course this system fails to catch all these questions on RIDDOR!

Pirellipete  
#2 Posted : 16 September 2022 09:31:44(UTC)
Rank: Forum user
Pirellipete

I had this some years ago when working in Photo-processing labs, albeit a slightly different scenario.

We had to have a physical break between the sink and tap, or an inline non-return valve,

try using a hozelock type fitting on the tap to the eyewash hose pipe that is a one-way connector, It might satisfy the water board, or not.  if not, you'll need to think of a pukka non-return valve somewhere in the line

A Kurdziel  
#3 Posted : 16 September 2022 10:18:53(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

We have been told that a non-return valve even a pukka one, is not acceptable. We must shorten the hoses. As I have said a very prescriptive approach.

chris42  
#4 Posted : 16 September 2022 10:20:43(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

Garden taps come with an anti syphon device installed ( sometimes easy to tell as they have a little pip on the underside (but not always). Our water company were ok with these when we had a short length of hose dangling from them in our work area ( to reach the floor and a bucket). Also you can get inline double check valves for under £5 from screwfix ( lots of other places also sell them) and just get it fitted before the tap.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/double-check-valve-15mm/96336?kpid=96336&ds_kid=92700055281954514&ds_rl=1249404&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIldnuh4mZ-gIVHurtCh3rqguvEAQYAiABEgKE_PD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or if you don’t like links search Product code 96336

All you got to do is find a plumber.

Chris

peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 16 September 2022 14:17:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

AK - the first time I really looked carefully at eyewash stations was about 3 years ago, when we were looking at asset management for - a water company! (Unfortunately not the water company who supplies your water).

What I learned from lots of Googling etc was that most eyewash installations are probably designed to US ANSI standards as the EN and thence BS standards are relatively recent (whatever type of eyewash station).

Methinks this is one where you should be challenging the regulator to quote chapter, verse and precedent. Can they cite a single example of water from an eyewash station (that should if anything be CLEANER [subject to an appropriate maintenance and testing regime as required by the various BS ENs] than the water coming from the mains) being siphoned back into the mains and contaminating a drinking supply?

Noting your valid point that this is NOT about risk, then at the very least you need to know exactly what Regulation they are thinking of using in any threatened enforcement action, particularly when they have already rejected your suggested solutions [No pun intended].

Good for your CPD if nothing else!

HSSnail  
#6 Posted : 16 September 2022 14:37:25(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
HSSnail

Originally Posted by: A Kurdziel Go to Quoted Post

We have been told that a non-return valve even a pukka one, is not acceptable. We must shorten the hoses. As I have said a very prescriptive approach.

Taken from the schedule to the regs:

This requirement does not apply to a water fitting downstream of a terminal fitting supplying wholesome water where–

(a)the use to which the water downstream is put does not require wholesome water; and

(b)a suitable arrangement or device to prevent backflow is installed.

As Peter says - challange them.

thanks 1 user thanked HSSnail for this useful post.
peter gotch on 17/09/2022(UTC)
A Kurdziel  
#7 Posted : 16 September 2022 14:56:13(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

me I'll challenge anyone but  the people making the final decision might not be up for it. What annoyed me was that the decision was taken without consulting H&S about items which are safety critical and are used quite often. 

thanks 2 users thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 17/09/2022(UTC), chris42 on 19/09/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#8 Posted : 17 September 2022 14:40:46(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

AK - and you are surprised to be the one expected to pick up the pieces?!?!

Perhaps you should ask the decision makers when they will release the necessary expenditure and how long the labs should lie idle until the issue is sorted. That might concentrate minds.

Risk of not having eyewash when needed v risk of backflow of STERILE water into drinking water - a no brainer!

P

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/09/2022(UTC)
chris42  
#9 Posted : 19 September 2022 10:20:27(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
chris42

But it will not be sterile after it has been in someone’s eye and over their face and lands in the sink. Anyway, mains tap water is not sterile to start with. However, for that to back flow surely the sink would need to have a plug in it. Can’t you just remove the plugs ? or lower the sink instead of shortening the hose ?

Just a thought

Chris

peter gotch  
#10 Posted : 19 September 2022 12:02:59(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Chris - the most brilliant ideas are often glaringly obvious with hindsight.

But, somebody at the water company will come up with the riposte that the hole in the sink is too small to take the full volume of the eyewash before the possibility of backflow, or that somebody will come along and stuff the hole with cotton wool, or.........some other hog(eye)wash.

...but you are right - sterile water won't still be sterile if it has splashed someone or something before entering the sink to potentially backflow.

P

A Kurdziel  
#11 Posted : 20 September 2022 08:55:16(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
A Kurdziel

We might simply decide that eyewash stations are too important to be messed about in this way so we will simply tell staff to use the eyewash away from the sink and clear up the mess later. Not ideal but then we will be able to say that we are fully compliant with the law as interpreted by a commercial organisation with links to the plumbing trade!

thanks 1 user thanked A Kurdziel for this useful post.
peter gotch on 20/09/2022(UTC)
peter gotch  
#12 Posted : 20 September 2022 14:15:56(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hmmmmm.

10 years time.

"I slipped on the floor which was wet as eyewash had been spilt 30 minutes earlier."

"So, why was the splillage not contained?"

"Cos we listened to our water company with links to the plumbing trade, and it seemed easier to remove the eyewash stations well away from the sink."

"No further questions, my Lord."

thanks 1 user thanked peter gotch for this useful post.
A Kurdziel on 20/09/2022(UTC)
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