One extreme to another - one who takes forever off work with a sprained thumb and another soldiering on with a cracked rib.

Why would the hospital give a patient anything to prove injury / hospital attendance?

The only real time you can back the medical profession in to a corner is if you need a hospital stay form completing for medical insurance or a (lack of) fitness statement to claim against travel insurance, otherwise they tend to charge for what is termed a private medical note.

If you are so desparate for a piece of paper chat with the employee & re-imburse any charge.

Six to eight weeks is a common recovery time for most fractures - how agile the patient is during recovery depends on which bones and the extent of injury.

Chris

I guess it's at least a 50:50 chance that the hospital wouldn't even do an X-ray for a suspected fractured rib. 

A&E are trying to turn around patients and discharge them or get them into wards (if any beds are available), so there is a time pressure as well as the cost AND the risk to the patient of doing an unnecessary X-ray.

My understanding is that the most common treatment for a broken rib is some pain relief while the rib heals itself wholly or to some degree. So, you have a doctor who feels the rib cage and finds a fracture - why X-ray to prove their clinical diagnosis?

So, as you recognise, the evidence points to an accident at work, but you might wish to debate whether it was a "work-related" accident - we have had plenty of debates on these Forums about those words!!

Assuming it is then either it is a "specified injury" IF there is something in writing saying that a medical practitioner has diagnosed a fracture.

“diagnosis” means a registered medical practitioner’s identification (in writing, where it pertains to an employee) of— (a) new symptoms; or (b) symptoms which have significantly worsened;

....and/or it is likely to meet the criteria for an Over 7 Day Injury to be reported AND the criteria for an Over 3 Day Injury to be recorded.

Unlikely to need any piece of paper from a medic to indicate that it is an O7D as most of the time would be taken up by self-certification.

Whether you want to force the GP to retrospectively set out in writing that the diagnosis was a fractured rib is perhaps a matter for HR, but as Rountuit says, that piece of paper may come with a bill, whilst at the same time being likely to cause the injured person to lose trust in their employer - at a time when it seems that they are clearly NOT pulling the proverbial "sickie".

Very few clients should be daft enough not to employ you as a contractor just because you have clocked up your first or one more RIDDOR.

I know that some are not very competent in doing their due diligence on their supply chain but most will be more interested in finding out about your process to learn from incidents - where there IS something to be learned (which might not be the case with this particular accident - but you won't know that until you have done an effective investigation!)

Hi Peter, no question it was a workplace accident we could see it on the security camera, He was doing the task he was supposed to (perhaps not quite correctly, but that is to be verified). He was using a torque wrench to tighten a nut; he can be seen bouncing on the wrench and we think he may have been misusing the wrench to wind the nut on a little more to get the castellation in the nut to line up with a split pin hole (he should have either wound the torque wrench on more or used a bigger T bar). The socket came off the nut as he was applying more force than he should have had to (by bouncing his body weight on it) and he just fell over sideways! All to be verified when he comes in, but that is what it looks like at the moment.

So, it is a workplace injury, he was doing a work-related task and he probably did hurt himself, but not sure of the degree.

I failed to take my own advice on these matters before asking the question, so thank you for pointing out what the legislation states (I normally do that as matter of course but didn’t this time for some odd reason). I always like to read the exact wording in the legislation before any ACOP or guidance etc.

So, the legislation states we have to have it in writing, however this doesn’t naturally happen when someone in the medical profession makes such a diagnosis. Lots of loose ends with this legal requirement then. So, we either don’t report as we have nothing in writing or perhaps, we tell him to take two more days off and get a fit not which hopefully states suspected cracked rib or we just report as an over 7 day and not as a specified injury. So, if this was a broken arm and the person had a cast on, I would still technically need it in writing even though we can see it is broken. No wonder things are not reported to the HSE as they should, what a get out for unscrupulous companies.

I’m so glad someone thought this through fully before making it law. We end up then making the best of a bad job. Which could alienate the IP as it looks like we don’t believe their word ( which we may not but we would prefer not to show that). In this instance, is he hurt very probably, is it broken or just bruised -who knows.

Thanks all

from HSE site.

Bone fractures include a break, crack or chip. They are reportable when diagnosed or confirmed by a doctor, including when they are specified on a GP 'fit note'. In some cases, there may be no definitive evidence of a fracture (eg if an X-ray is not taken), but the injury will still be reportable if a doctor considers it is likely that there is a fracture. Self-diagnosed 'suspected fractures' are not reportable.

Sorry rushing this morning - i know toes and fingers are excluded cannot remember if ribs are - but this could be a specified injury (major injury to us oldies!)

I know your not a fan of the HSE guidance on RIDDOR Peter - but as i say was rushing this morning. The point i was trying to make is you are unlikly to get anything from the hospital - i dont think they xray for a broken rib unles they think there is a risk of something more seriouse like a punctured lung, but a DR note Sick/Fit would count as a diagnosis. In this case i belive treatment is irelevant as we are talking employee not member of teh public - unless i have missed somthing else.